Josh Hagood
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My group decided to buy this game for my wife (Who loves Kiki's Delivery Service) and we finally got to play it last night!

2 questions came up:

1. Do you move 1 witch pawn per witch card, or can you move both of your pawns if you want? It confused a few players at first that we had both pawns. My analysis is that you move one (I don't think the rules mentioned having 2 at all after setup), and having two is mainly a way to make sure you almost always have a move when you are forced to play a witch role sooner than you wanted.

2. Can you move over water after the clouds are removed, or are the clouds on water ONLY for scoring lighting bolts with?
This question seems to have been asked here before, but never quite resolved, imo. The rule book is vague at best about this. It explicitly states you cannot move into the water (Especially because there's no witch to let you) but then elsewhere it mentions that you can't move through areas with clouds, possibly implying you could move THROUGH/Over water as part of a move.

Thematically, this made sense to our group and we were going to homerule that you can treat lakes w/o clouds as a "skip" square, basically increasing the number of squares that count as adjacent to the ones touching the lakes.

Is there any official source on this?
 
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brian
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Vazzaroth wrote:
My group decided to buy this game for my wife (Who loves Kiki's Delivery Service) and we finally got to play it last night!

2 questions came up:

1. Do you move 1 witch pawn per witch card, or can you move both of your pawns if you want? It confused a few players at first that we had both pawns. My analysis is that you move one (I don't think the rules mentioned having 2 at all after setup), and having two is mainly a way to make sure you almost always have a move when you are forced to play a witch role sooner than you wanted.
One witch per card.

Quote:
2. Can you move over water after the clouds are removed, or are the clouds on water ONLY for scoring lighting bolts with?
This question seems to have been asked here before, but never quite resolved, imo. The rule book is vague at best about this. It explicitly states you cannot move into the water (Especially because there's no witch to let you) but then elsewhere it mentions that you can't move through areas with clouds, possibly implying you could move THROUGH/Over water as part of a move.
The rules are clear that you cannot enter water spaces. So the clouds there are just to collect lightning bolts.
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Susan
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

The rules are clear that you cannot enter water spaces. So the clouds there are just to collect lightning bolts.

But wait...not sure we answered his question.

Can a witch fly over a water space that no longer has clouds?
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brian
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
The rules are clear that you cannot enter water spaces. So the clouds there are just to collect lightning bolts.
Well not as clear as I recall when reading them. The sentence is a bit ambiguous if the cloud tiles just refers to land or also ware here: "No pawn may be moved onto or over water areas or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."

I read this as no pawn may move onto water period -and- no pawn may be moved on land with clouds. An argument could be made that the clouds applying to both water and land.

However, you move based on the card you play and the cards do not indicate water as an option. I am not sure if some of the variants would make it possible to just freely move without the use of the card.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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You have
...no card to move into a water space.
...cards you do have say "adjacent".

And there you go.
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brian
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apotheos wrote:
You have
...no card to move into a water space.
...cards you do have say "adjacent".

And there you go.
However, there are two variant tokens that allow free movement. However, they say "as if placing the appropriate cowardly witches." There is no witch that moves you to the water.
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David Tolin
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
The rules are clear that you cannot enter water spaces. So the clouds there are just to collect lightning bolts.
Well not as clear as I recall when reading them. The sentence is a bit ambiguous if the cloud tiles just refers to land or also ware here: "No pawn may be moved onto or over water areas or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."

I read this as no pawn may move onto water period -and- no pawn may be moved on land with clouds. An argument could be made that the clouds applying to both water and land.

Not a successful argument, imo. If "where there are one or more cloud tiles" modified both, the word "areas" would not be used twice. Put another way, there is a distinct difference between:

"No pawn may be moved onto or over water areas or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."

and

"No pawn may be moved onto or over water or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."
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brian
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DavidT wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
The rules are clear that you cannot enter water spaces. So the clouds there are just to collect lightning bolts.
Well not as clear as I recall when reading them. The sentence is a bit ambiguous if the cloud tiles just refers to land or also ware here: "No pawn may be moved onto or over water areas or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."

I read this as no pawn may move onto water period -and- no pawn may be moved on land with clouds. An argument could be made that the clouds applying to both water and land.

Not a successful argument, imo. If "where there are one or more cloud tiles" modified both, the word "areas" would not be used twice. Put another way, there is a distinct difference between:

"No pawn may be moved onto or over water areas or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."

and

"No pawn may be moved onto or over water or land areas where there are one or more cloud tiles."
The problem is that few adhere to the rules of writing, especially when it comes to translations. I agree with you which is why I answered as such. But it is quite possible the intent was to make it one or both even though it is isn't written to reflect that. It could have been cleared up with a better selection of words. So an argument could be made even if not successfully.

Regardless, the cards don't let you move to water areas so that clears up the ambiguity (hopefully).
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Josh Hagood
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

Regardless, the cards don't let you move to water areas so that clears up the ambiguity (hopefully).

Luckily, due to the mechanics of the game, that part is pretty easy to figure out since there is no way it could happen.

It feels like removing all the clouds from the water areas should reward players by letting them skip over water (Never stopping on water, of course) and treat all spots connected by water as adjacent. This would also give other players a reason to remove clouds when the higher cost but 1 lightning token is the only one left on the lake. But it also seems like that would be something explicitly covered by the rules and it's not.

I wish we'd get an errata or FAQ at least so we have a definitive answer to point to my group when they ask though.
 
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David Tolin
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Vazzaroth wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:

Regardless, the cards don't let you move to water areas so that clears up the ambiguity (hopefully).

Luckily, due to the mechanics of the game, that part is pretty easy to figure out since there is no way it could happen.

It feels like removing all the clouds from the water areas should reward players by letting them skip over water (Never stopping on water, of course) and treat all spots connected by water as adjacent.

Players are already awarded with points.

Vazzaroth wrote:
But it also seems like that would be something explicitly covered by the rules and it's not.

I wish we'd get an errata or FAQ at least so we have a definitive answer to point to my group when they ask though.

It is explicitly covered by the rules. The problem is the explicit rule is subject to challenge because it's not written as clearly as it could be. However, while I acknowledge that we can't assume a translated game manual is going to adhere to sound writing principles, it's noteworthy that the only way to construe the rules as allowing movement over water is to assume that the relevant sentence is poorly written.

I'd much rather assume the sentence is written properly (with respect to English syntax, at least), which leads to a single possible interpretation (no travel over water). The fact that this interpretation is also entirely consistent with the rest of the rules and components makes it a definitive answer, imo.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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The rules do not need to explicitly tell you that you can't do things the rules don't tell you that you can do.

You are working way to hard to rationalize your misinterpretation. Emptying the region of tokens would never imply adjacency is created.
 
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Josh Hagood
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Andreas Pelikan, one of the designers, posted this in another thread I just found:

"Water areas - and areas with clouds - are off limits. While the weather fairy can open up the clouded land areas, water areas are always impassable."

That's about as explicit as I could imagine to shoot down my group's idea. The phrase "impassable" is very firm, since our argument was never that we could occupy water, just go over it for a turn.

Thanks Andreas! Wish I could have dug deep enough to find that last night during our play.

We'll probably try out our homerule someday to see if it affects the balance too much.
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Greg Cox
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Seems counter intuitive that a witch flyng on a broomstick can't also fly over water!
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David Tolin
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coxy_fc wrote:
Seems counter intuitive that a witch flyng on a broomstick can't also fly over water!

Not really. In fiction/folklore, it's commonly said that witches can't cross running water.
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brian
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coxy_fc wrote:
Seems counter intuitive that a witch flyng on a broomstick can't also fly over water!
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coxy_fc wrote:
Seems counter intuitive that a witch flyng on a broomstick can't also fly over water!
I agree, but it is also counter intuitive that a witch can not fly to a non-adjacent area. But if that was allowed, there wouldn't be a decent game left cool
If you look at the back side of the map, flying over water would not make sense, because some water areas are very large. In fact, it is - fairly - explicitly stated in the rules on the last page, where the turbo broom tiles are explained:
"It is never possible to leave the island with the stone circle D".
 
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