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Subject: Why do I have such awful luck trading with fickle gamers. rss

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Blue Dino Studio
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I've been consistently going through my trade matches for the past couple months here on the BGG and it seems like most people just have trade lists for show. I know that lots of users have great success making trades and thinning down their unwanted. I on the other hand get these responses...

"Well, I actually don't want to bother. I think I'm just going to keep the game."

"Gee, you offered me 2 great games well above the value of the one you want....but well, how about you throw in one more to sweeten the deal."

"I actually don't want that game, Sorry."

"I didn't actually want to trade that...I just wanted to see what crazy offers I'd get lololol #yolo."

Maybe a bit of exaggeration on that last one, but not a lot. So fellow traders, what do you do? Is it just mass trade offers in hope that a certain % hit, or do I need to start offering x2 the value of their item?
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Matt Gustafson
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Math Trades

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Brad vanVugt
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gamesgocrazy wrote:
Math Trades


Seriously though. I was having a lot of the same issues as you with a lot of unsuccessful trade offers. I tried my first math trade last month and was able to swap 9 games, getting fair value for all of them. Shipping math trades don't come around all the time, but even with just one trade I realized they are the most efficient way to unload my unwanted games.
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I feel like I hear this complaint a fair amount of times on here. Maybe there needs to be some way to rate traders like we rate games?
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Norman Hedden
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People can be jerks. The worst is when they say 'must have' on their wish list for the game, and they get flakey.

I have been successful with lop sided trades. And I have been fine with it since I want a certain game. Mass trades help too. 4 games for 3-4 games in trade. 1 for 1 rarely works unless the games are OOP.

Math trade is worth a try, but sometimes I hear bad things. Like poor packaging or missing components. Seems easier to resolve issues when you are in communication with the trader.

Your trade rating also has some weight in a successful trade. I am much more comfortable with a trader with a higher positive score.

Never trade with gamers that are also "designers". You never ever get a fair trade with them in my experience.
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Jason Bush
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I refuse to trade one game if shipped and receive no message, just a request.
 
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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I agree on the Math Trade.

And/or propose a trade to this guy:
BoardGameCo
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You might have to go down a little in value, but he's got a great selection and he does package trade deals so you can trade a bunch for a bunch.
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Nick Meenachan
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Yeah, I feel your pain. I like math trades, but sometimes I just want to do a simple side trade, and people get all indignant when you dare to message them or make a request. Like you said, they seem to have trade lists for no reason, just for show. And some people will never, ever make a trade if they don't come out on top.
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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I have the opposite luck by the way, not so much people I try to trade with, but people who try to trade with me - I tell ya, some of the offers shake
I think my favorite trading experience was a recent one, where someone offered me a used mass-market version of Hanabi ($10 new, probably $3 or $4 used) for my OOP For Sale (they're listed on marketplace right now for $45 and sell easily for $20-$30 used).

But to top it all off, what made me laugh was on the guy's profile, he writes "Always open to fair trades".

I guess he just doesn't PROPOSE fair trades.
Inspired me to put For Sale up in math trade and ended up getting an actual fair trade for it.
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Jamison Munn
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What is a math trade?
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Geoff
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I think that sometimes people don't keep their want in trade/for trade lists up to date. Though I also sometimes put up things that I might want to trade if the _perfect_ offer came along but that I'm keen to keep otherwise. Keep in mind that it isn't always about dollar value! I had Duel of Ages II on my trade list for a while even though I really would like to try it a couple more times, and I turned down a few decent trade offers because they just weren't enough to make it for me. To have made a trade for DoA, it would have needed to be a pretty lop-sided offer of games that I want to play and expect to do so right away.

In my case, things that I really really reaaaaaally want to get, I often just buy in fairly short order. Games that I am merely curious about often get relegated to the want-in-trade list. So sometimes it's difficult to get what would otherwise look like an even trade out of my list.
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Jonathan Warren
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Normandy wrote:
Never trade with gamers that are also "designers". You never ever get a fair trade with them in my experience.
Absolute rubbish.

DanielFirestorm wrote:
I refuse to trade one game if shipped and receive no message, just a request.
What do you mean? Do you mean that you expect a personal message and also a Trade Proposal message to consider a trade? If so, why?
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Robert Beachler
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
I agree on the Math Trade.

And/or propose a trade to this guy:
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You might have to go down a little in value, but he's got a great selection and he does package trade deals so you can trade a bunch for a bunch.

HA! I've entertained offers from this guy. He wants to fleece you good and get double in worth back for what he gives. Waste of time if you ask me.
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Lucas Smith
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Actually, Id still prefer a "I don't want to trade that game." answer to no answer at all. (especially if I can see that the user logs in daily.)
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Lucas Smith
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Normandy wrote:
.

Never trade with gamers that are also "designers". You never ever get a fair trade with them in my experience.
I totally disagree! You might even get a good deal on one of his games/get some signed promos etc.

(Well, I don't know if the really famous designers do trades, but you can always ask.)
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smithlucas wrote:
Normandy wrote:
.

Never trade with gamers that are also "designers". You never ever get a fair trade with them in my experience.
I totally disagree! You might even get a good deal on one of his games/get some signed promos etc.

(Well, I don't know if the really famous designers do trades, but you can always ask.)

Unfortunately, there are many "designers" on BGG. If you make even one awful homemade print n' play game, you, too, can be a famous designer! But this is a different rant...
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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NUFC Jamo wrote:
What is a math trade?

There are a few threads introducing math trades that are pinned to the top of this forum: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/13/boardgamegeek/trades

Very briefly, it's a way to get people who have games for trade together with people who want those games, so everyone gets what they want. It uses software to match people up.
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Justin Fuhrmann
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Normandy wrote:
Math trade is worth a try, but sometimes I hear bad things. Like poor packaging or missing components. Seems easier to resolve issues when you are in communication with the trader.

...

Never trade with gamers that are also "designers". You never ever get a fair trade with them in my experience.

Math trades can have problems, but so can pretty much any trade. A huge key to math trade happiness is double and triple checking your want list. Look carefully at the item listings to make sure there aren't any flaws or other issues that would be a deal breaker for you. You can check the trade rating of everyone who owns games on your want list, so you can apply the same restrictions about who you trade with, just like in one-on-one trades. I've done quite a few math trades in the last 3-4 years, and I've had no problems. And you are in communication with your trading partners...I'm not sure how you could do any kind of trade any other way. And if you have a question about an item before adding it to your list, you can always ask the owner. Math trades are often more work than a regular one-on-one trade, but they kind of become a game in themselves. It's like Christmas morning when you look at the results and see what you got!

Also, I don't understand why you would exclude "designers." I know some of these people, and they're just regular people who play games and also happen to enjoy trying to design them. Their motivations for trading have always been the same as mine - to get rid of games they don't play in exchange for games they will.
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Kevin Eastwood
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I always respond to trade requests because it's a nice thing to do and I may want to trade with others in the future. For new users I always "talk" with them about expectations prior to moving forward with a trade so both sides are happy.

Some people view the barrier for single game trading to be the shipping costs, but here again you need to find someone that will do a 1:1 trade. For some of the requests I've gotten which were really unfair trade requests, I still respond because someone may not be aware of the change in value, and if they really want to pursue an unfair deal I just simply keep their user on a list of people that I don't trade with.

Finally it's tough for me to keep my wishlist up to date, but I make the attempt to do that. Some people will only go after trades that are a "1 or 2" in their wishlist because everything else they're just looking into.

Good luck on the trades, and since your also in New England if you're looking for a trade I'm always up for discussion
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Blue Dino Studio
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I sincerely appreciate the replies everyone. It does sound like math trades are a good way to increase my chances of success, so I will be looking into that.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has run into these issues as well. Misery loves company and all that
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robbdaman wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
I agree on the Math Trade.

And/or propose a trade to this guy:
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You might have to go down a little in value, but he's got a great selection and he does package trade deals so you can trade a bunch for a bunch.

HA! I've entertained offers from this guy. He wants to fleece you good and get double in worth back for what he gives. Waste of time if you ask me.

Well he's a business, not a private trader. He's upfront about the fact that he's running it as a business, and to do exactly even trades wouldn't be sustainable. So given that, that it's an option for people who are OK with trading down a little in value, with the plus that he has a huge selection and that he can do package trades (so it's a little like a math trade but with a single person).

I traded two games that I was meh on and never played, for a game that I've already played 10+ times in a couple months and has entered my Top 10, so I couldn't be happier with my trade with him.
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Robert Beachler
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
robbdaman wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
I agree on the Math Trade.

And/or propose a trade to this guy:
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You might have to go down a little in value, but he's got a great selection and he does package trade deals so you can trade a bunch for a bunch.

HA! I've entertained offers from this guy. He wants to fleece you good and get double in worth back for what he gives. Waste of time if you ask me.

Well he's a business, not a private trader. He's upfront about the fact that he's running it as a business, and to do exactly even trades wouldn't be sustainable. So given that, that it's an option for people who are OK with trading down a little in value, with the plus that he has a huge selection and that he can do package trades (so it's a little like a math trade but with a single person).

I traded two games that I was meh on and never played, for a game that I've already played 10+ times in a couple months and has entered my Top 10, so I couldn't be happier with my trade with him.

He's not really a business, it's one he runs out of his home. I suppose if you got something you enjoy that's all good for you I guess. My experience with him is that I'd send him a trade offer, he would counter with something almost completely different and very one sided and I decline his absurd offer. I've had 3 proposed trades like that with the guy and he tries to talk you down on how valuable your games are while talk up his as better than sliced bread. Snake oil at your best. I avoid him now, not worth the time.

Stephen, my biggest disappointment with trying to trade is sending a lot of proposals and getting no response at all. Even when I see a person logging in every day. I do my best to at least click the decline button but sometimes I forget.
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As someone who use to do a lot of trading but now doesn't so much anymore, let me address this from my perspective as I've responded (sorta) like the examples you've given. (No, not offended trust me you have to go pretty damn hard to offend me.)

Back in the early 2000's I did a lot of trading. Biggest reason I don't do much of it now...shipping costs. Not only have did I lose my good paying job, but well, rates have gone up...a lot and it's expensive to ship a single game. I mean a square big box game is going to run you $12 to $14+ to ship to the continental US from the continental US. So why do I have games listed for trade anymore? Because I do like to do bulk game trades. Now sometimes that may mean trading for game(s) that are not on your or my want list/radar, but if it makes the trade balance what the hell? Why not do it? --covers your first example.

Next I do have some games that I have very very low interest in trading off. However they are out of print, and fetch high value. I am therefore willing to part with these if the trade offer is balanced and I'm getting the actual value of said game, not simply the original MSRP value. A couple of examples of games I've turned down trade offers for are Walnut Grove, and After Pablo. Both very OOP games, have a LOT of users wanting them, are tough to get you hands, and piece de resistance is the fact that both are games I really enjoy playing, and no one around here owns them. So if someone wants to get one of these from me, well it's going to take a very lopsided trade in my favor, but yes if the deal is strong enough I would part with them. --covers your second and fourth examples.

I've been on the geek since 2004. Over that time, my tastes in gaming have changed (I like to think refined) and well honestly I sometimes forget a game is in my "wants" until I get a trade offer for it. At that point it's now been there for 4 years and really I no longer want it. Sorry it happens man. --covers your third example.

Math trades are good, I use to do them a lot, but don't anymore because of the shippping costs and you can pretty much only do single game trades via a MT so I'm kinda out on that. However if you are up for it I do highly suggest MTs. You are guaranteed to get the game(s) you want, and only give up the games you feel are the right value for what you are getting.

That's my thoughts. Hope this gives you some insight into the reason for so many trade declines.

neil
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DJ Wilde
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This discussion is making me glad that I have nothing I'm trying to trade.
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robbdaman wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
robbdaman wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
I agree on the Math Trade.

And/or propose a trade to this guy:
BoardGameCo
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You might have to go down a little in value, but he's got a great selection and he does package trade deals so you can trade a bunch for a bunch.

HA! I've entertained offers from this guy. He wants to fleece you good and get double in worth back for what he gives. Waste of time if you ask me.

Well he's a business, not a private trader. He's upfront about the fact that he's running it as a business, and to do exactly even trades wouldn't be sustainable. So given that, that it's an option for people who are OK with trading down a little in value, with the plus that he has a huge selection and that he can do package trades (so it's a little like a math trade but with a single person).

I traded two games that I was meh on and never played, for a game that I've already played 10+ times in a couple months and has entered my Top 10, so I couldn't be happier with my trade with him.

He's not really a business, it's one he runs out of his home. I suppose if you got something you enjoy that's all good for you I guess. My experience with him is that I'd send him a trade offer, he would counter with something almost completely different and very one sided and I decline his absurd offer. I've had 3 proposed trades like that with the guy and he tries to talk you down on how valuable your games are while talk up his as better than sliced bread. Snake oil at your best. I avoid him now, not worth the time.

Not trying to just bash anyone, but I can honestly say that I feel exactly like this after many trade offers with him that have gone very similarly to what you describe above. Yes my offers were lopsided in his favor but he wanted more. We batted on trade offer back and forth about 6 or 7 times, and still could not come to an agreement. Not worth the time as I do spend quite a fair amount of time thinking, analyzing, and researching my trade offers.
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