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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Visions of Dawn vs Crown of Destiny rss

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Billy Babel
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Guymon
Oklahoma
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I've been looking at this from the OL's perspective and crown seems like the clear winner. Giants seem to be better than trolls. Trolls requiring a successful back swing stat test in order to stun, and giants just getting the ability and also giants have a black die compared to a grey die. Lava beatles seem to beat out manticores for damage having 4 of them in a 5 player game, and them potentially getting blast as opposed to potential poison and pierce. Ogres seem abysmal being a 2 monster group in a 5 player game where one has a blue and a yellow die? Also they only have a grey die which won't let them survive long enough for only the master's flesh monger ability to even make a difference. Where as chaos beasts with sorcery and the player's dice seems to have a much more competitive attack for all monsters in the group.

I haven't looked too closely at the heroes though, do Visions' heroes beat out CoD's at all? Anyone care to add anything that I've missed that might sway me?
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Paul
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The heroes from Visions of Dawn are pretty cool (Ispher is a very good healer now), but so are the heroes from crown. The manticores are a ranged monster with ravage- that is pretty unique. Overall, I like the crown monsters better. If you are only getting one, I'd get crown. I've had crown for awhile, I just picked up Visions.
 
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Johannes Benedikt
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imo Vision of Dawn is one of the least interesting H&M pack, because Ogres are mostly useless in their H&M version, Manticores are extremely situational and Ogres are imo weaker Giants.

The only reason why I would get Crown of Destiny would be the big 3-monster group Chaosbeasts that are extremely suitable for proxying other monsters (If you don't plan on getting the Conversion Kit, this of course has no meaning for you). Additionally the miniature quality is quite high in this pack.

Here is my H&M ranking:

1. Crusade of the Forgotten (Golems, sorcerers, medusae; that's 2 extremely good monstergroups and even medusa has it's uses. I also like the 4 female heroes.) Miniatures seem to be good quality in most of the cases.

2. Bonds of the Wild (Hellhounds, Kobold, Dark Elves; Hellhounds are top tier monsters and I used their weaker CK version quite often, Kobolds are a 12 unit monstergroup at their height and their H&M Version seems balanced, I never used Dark Elves, but always liked their concept, now they got buffed which makes them kind of usefull I guess. The heroes all come with a familiar, so that will change up things quite a bit for the heroes). This is only it 2nd place because I haven't seen the actual miniatures.

3. Guardians of Deephall (Wendigos are top tier monsters, the crypt dragons are alos good, I didn't ever wanted to use the priests. I only think the hero sculps are bad)

3. Crown of Destiny (Giants, Chaos Beasts, Lavabeatles; Giants are quite nice, although I prefer Golems most of the time, Chaos Beasts are quite situational, but potentially good against strong weapons, Lavabeatles are very situational because of their low HP; good miniatures makes this tied with Guardians).

5. Visions of Dawn (Ogres, Trolls, Manticores; Ogres got nerfed quite hard. They still got surge:+3 damage which makes them hit quite hard despite being only blue&yellow, they also have surge:knockback which works like a more reliable "throw". Blue&Yellow gives them enough surges most of the time to inflict some chaos, adding surges via OL cards also boosts their usability. Their very low defense and their new passive made them quite uninteresting compared to their CK version, because they have nothing to offset their abysmal defense. Trolls and Manticores are mediocre, but not bad, just very situational)

5. Oath of the Outcast (Only comes with "small" monsters that are all imo mediocre, meaning situational to very situational. I never used their aequivalent in the CKs, but they all got buffed a little bit and they all are quite good under certain circumstances. The heroes seem to be the strongest out of all the H&M packs. Elder Mok is bordering imbalance and Trenloe is very strong).


So there you have it. This is just my opinion of course. If you care about mini-quality (if you paint them) just search for a few images of the miniatures, as their quality is highly variable.
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Steve Williams
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Columbus
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BITS FOR THE BITS GOD!
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Get em all!

But yeah, Visions of Dawn is easily the most disappointing H&M kit. Of all the 1st edition monsters least likely [IMO] to get a re-release, those were all of them [excluding Blood Apes].

On the bright side, that probably means every single 1st edition monster is getting an update. If Trolls and Ogres weren't considered too redundant after Giants and Golems, then Specters after Wraiths, Bloodapes after Wendigos, and Nagas after Medusa are probably all game as well.
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Richard Ayres
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BillyBabel wrote:
<snip>Giants seem to be better than trolls<snip>
Thing is, Giants and Trolls are not completely interchangable. Giants have Wilderness and Mountain triats, whereas Trolls have Cave and Mountain traits (I think). For example, this means Giants could be chosen for A Fat Goblin enc. 1 and Trolls (or Ogres) available for enc. 2.

The H&M packs increase options for the Overlord. It's all good.
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Rafael M
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The cast of CoD monsters is great: cool and varied. Take also into account that its the only one to cover 6 monster traits (the maximum) in comparison to others (OotO, 4; CotF, 4; GoD, 5; VoD, 5; BotW, 5), making it more "usable."

Heroes wise, yeah, I think the VoD ones edge the CoD ones, but yeah, get them giants.
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C F
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I never buy these packs based on their effectiveness in the game. I buy them purely for how they look. For me the more Trolls and Ogres sitting on my table, the better. So that makes Visons of Dawn my favorite pack so far. It also has some unique "beast" heroes which are a nice change.

Also, even if some monsters got nerfed, there is nothing stopping me from using the old cards from the conversion kit.

I agree, however, that Oath of the Outcast is the lamest of all of them.
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