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Subject: Questionable Production Decisions rss

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Graham Charlton
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Just got my Kickstarter copy of Viceroy and in the process of punching etc. All of the actual components are really well made, good quality cards, solid tokens. Excellently made.

But then there are some extra bits that just seem like they were added without thinking.

Biggest "what were they thinking" moment is the four really tiny ziplock bags - far too small to pack all the components in. Why bother? Either add bags or assume we'll sort it out ourselves. I can't imagine what I'd use these four for.

Then the Kickstarter copy comes shipped with some exceptionally poor quality card sleeves. Quite aside from the fact it's not the sort of game you'd want to sleeve anyway, putting these on will just ruin the otherwise quite attractive look of the game.

Finally the sticker. Limited edition stickers are of course good fun and a way to show off your copy of the game - however this was just packaged loose. Of course I'm not going to stick it on myself now, I'm a gamer. Far too much AP for that. What if I stick it in the wrong place and it reduces the value of my game rather than increase it? So it'll just end up loose inside the box for whoever I eventually trade the game on to to worry about.

All tiny complaints I know, just felt the need to vent. It just gives the impression some people put a lot of effort into producing a quality product but then whoever was last in that chain just couldn't be bothered.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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I think you're being a little tough:

- There are plenty of games that come with oddly chosen ziplock bags. This is hardly a new thing. Kingdom Builder anyone? Either way, hard to complain about free stuff.

- The sleeves are typical penny sleeves, and this is definitely a game to sleeve IMO. The bigger complaint is that the sleeves are too big. I had some better fitting, higher quality sleeves lying around that I chose to use.

- If the "limited edition" must be a sticker, I'd personally rather be the one who places it. I certainly care more about ideal placement than some lackey in an assembly line. Honestly, "limited edition" printed on the box is the way to go, but if you're going with a sticker then I'd prefer it loose myself...
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Eric Bettan
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Don't forget those ziplocks were one of the excuses given for the delayed delivery.

I upgraded to the premium sleeves as I have never been a fan of their standard sleeves.

Think about us poor non-US/non-EU backers who are receiving the games packed in padded envelopes direct from China.

Then again, I haven't received my copy yet, so I'm jealous!
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Derry Salewski
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They addressed the bag thing-- oops.

Mayday sleeves sell out continuously so most people disagree about them being exceptionally poor quality. I've got thousands of cards sleeved in them, they work great. Don't sleeve it if you don't want to?

Sticker . . . I mean, seriously? Stick it on or don't.
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Ben Rubinstein

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One of the corners of my box popped when opening it for the very first time.
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Jason
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I sleeved the law cards because they're a lot easier to shuffle that way by smooshing them together.
 
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Graham Charlton
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As I said I know they're tiny complaints, but it's not really the individual things I'm complaining about. It's the impression if gives of the publisher. Feels like they reached a certain point and then just gave up and rushed it out.
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Dick Butler
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epilepticemu wrote:
One of the corners of my box popped when opening it for the very first time.


I pushed my finger through a box edge just trying to get the cover off when I first opened the game. I never expected that; most game boxes these days are not that fragile. Big disappointment, but otherwise the game is beautiful, the KS player mat, the pieces, and the cards.
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Graham Charlton
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gamerbut wrote:
epilepticemu wrote:
One of the corners of my box popped when opening it for the very first time.


I pushed my finger through a box edge just trying to get the cover off when I first opened the game. I never expected that; most game boxes these days are not that fragile. Big disappointment, but otherwise the game is beautiful, the KS player mat, the pieces, and the cards.


Yeah the box is very strange, feels quite fragile. Mine is ok, but it's hard getting the lid off.
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Przemyslaw Kozlowski
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RandomGraham wrote:
gamerbut wrote:
epilepticemu wrote:
One of the corners of my box popped when opening it for the very first time.


I pushed my finger through a box edge just trying to get the cover off when I first opened the game. I never expected that; most game boxes these days are not that fragile. Big disappointment, but otherwise the game is beautiful, the KS player mat, the pieces, and the cards.


Yeah the box is very strange, feels quite fragile. Mine is ok, but it's hard getting the lid off.


I broke a corner of the box when I opened it for the second time. I think that the linen finish adds too much friction to the box lid. Even with the broken corner it is still hard to open.
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Simon
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RandomGraham wrote:
As I said I know they're tiny complaints, but it's not really the individual things I'm complaining about. It's the impression if gives of the publisher. Feels like they reached a certain point and then just gave up and rushed it out.


I think this is exactly what happened. They needed to make GenCon.
 
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Simon
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Bannoran wrote:
Rushed it out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lmfao. its 6 months late. mayfair are total garbage.


Mayday, even if Mayfair doesn't rank too highly either. There's late for us (january) and late for them (GenCon). It matters little to them if it's late for us, they already have our money, and no amount of bitching is going to drive away enough dollars (see CMON, Queen, etc) to matter. If they miss GenCon, though, they lose the sales and word of mouth there, which is reportedly incredibly important to many games. No matter the expense, it is always worth it for GenCon. At least, that's how it seems.
 
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This is a family business that did a remarkable job given the success of this kickstarter.
 
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As soon as you have landed your own kickstarter, bitch away; production and distribution are complex things. Some of you have no business kickstarting anything. There is constructive criticism, then there is unfounded grumbling...6 months late in Kickstarter terms is not a problem.
 
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Ben Wilkinson
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Squatting Monkey wrote:
Some of you have no business kickstarting anything. There is constructive criticism, then there is unfounded grumbling...6 months late in Kickstarter terms is not a problem.


Is it a sad state of affairs when to be delayed by 6 months is seen as normal and to point this out is "unfounded grumbling"? I don't even know anymore.
 
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Graham Charlton
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Wilko18 wrote:
Squatting Monkey wrote:
Some of you have no business kickstarting anything. There is constructive criticism, then there is unfounded grumbling...6 months late in Kickstarter terms is not a problem.


Is it a sad state of affairs when to be delayed by 6 months is seen as normal and to point this out is "unfounded grumbling"? I don't even know anymore.


I started this thread with entirely different (and perfectly founded) grumblings - I honestly hadn't even noticed the Kickstarter was so very late. I guess I'm so untrusting of predicted delivery dates that I don't even look any more. Send some money and trust it'll turn up at some point.
 
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Emmanuel Mailloux
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Squatting Monkey wrote:
As soon as you have landed your own kickstarter, bitch away; production and distribution are complex things. Some of you have no business kickstarting anything. There is constructive criticism, then there is unfounded grumbling...6 months late in Kickstarter terms is not a problem.


It's true that majority of kickstarter are late by 6 month or more but, they do not advertise something then change there mind after the end. Like artwork missing, Canadian not ship for Canada anymore but from China.
And do you wanna talk about the way they package ? no wonder there so many damage box with that poor packaging.
 
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You can't treat a kickstarter like a retail negotiation, it is your money put up against their most optimistic intentions. I think what bothers me so much about this and The reason I've characterized complaints as "Grumbling" is because everyone seems to have extremely high expectations for their $26.00. This is not a big purchase and for what was paid, the quality of the content is actually good. Go into your FLGS with the same money.

I admit the grey core box material combined with inadequate packaging resulted in some box damage, but the company immediately offered new boxes to be sent ASAP.

I'm just glad that you guys aren't heavily invested in Kickstarters --so this lesson should be a cheap one.
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Jason Miller
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Are you serious? With the printing error printing the cards the wrong way on the card stock, sleeving the cards is what actually makes the cards less crappy.
 
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Jason Miller
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Squatting Monkey wrote:
As soon as you have landed your own kickstarter, bitch away; production and distribution are complex things. Some of you have no business kickstarting anything. There is constructive criticism, then there is unfounded grumbling...6 months late in Kickstarter terms is not a problem.


Bullshit. Sorry, the old "if you can't do it, you can't complain" line of thought won't fly. This is a company that did over a million dollars in sales last year: you don't get to claim "Mom & Pop" protection.
 
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Are you aware that a million dollars in sales is still very much a Mom and Pop. That has nothing to do with profit!

Sorry I don't follow your point on the cards. They feel a little thin, but the print quality is great. I have the deluxe sleeves and they work great. Again, where is your comparable game for $26.00 Especially considering that art is often the primary expense in a card game. We haven't even touched on the fact that the game is good. Is it a bargain? I think so. Was everything managed perfectly, of course not.
 
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Jason Miller
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Dude, Seth himself has said that the game cost jack squat to produce: they should have ponied up for better boxes. Reference: anything by Minion Games or Genius Games. Both on Kickstarter, both with games costing the same or less, both with boxes that aren't made of tissue paper.

The issue with the cards themselves is a printer error: the printer had the paper facing the wrong direction. By printing with the grain instead of against, it made the cards more flimsy feeling than they should. You can test this yourself but pinching the cards, then rotating the card 90 degrees and doing the same. This is actually a fairly glaring problem, but one that is not the fault of Mayday.

 
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Jason
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laserjudas wrote:
Reference: anything by Minion Games or Genius Games. Both on Kickstarter, both with games costing the same or less, both with boxes that aren't made of tissue paper.


I doing know Genius Games, but I wouldn't hold up Minion as an example. My only experience with them is the recently shipped Dead Men Tell No Tales. While their box wasn't flimsy, their cards and cardboard were incredibly so. Later I even found an article on doing Kickstarters by Minion. One of the key points there was about how you could skimp on the gsm of the cards and cardboard and your players would probably not even notice. Well, I noticed.
 
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Jason Miller
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I was explicit in pointing out game boxes.
 
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Jason
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laserjudas wrote:
I was explicit in pointing out game boxes.


You were explicit in pointing out examples of other companies that come in at the same price point and have better quality boxes. Do you really not see the relevance in them skimping in other areas of the product to hit that price point?

I also forgot to mention how the DMNT box insert was laughably inappropriate to the actual contents of the box. There was no way to fit the assembled components of that game back in the box without either tossing the insert for cutting a hole in it. This was another instance of corner-cutting. They simply reused existing insert rather than come up with one that actually fit this game.
 
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