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Subject: Religious Indoctrincation, is this true? rss

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Nick Clinite
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"Another dubious element is the fact that the primary means of reducing discontent in the colony is by building temples or utilizing other Christian-inspired religious figures (missionaries, the pope, etc)."

One of the primary ways of quelling local discontent is religious indoctrination? Seriously?
 
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si Mon
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It's tongue-in-chick, of course it's more complicated than that but evangilation had an important role in colonisation especially with the church school.
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Jonathan Challis
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islan wrote:
"Another dubious element is the fact that the primary means of reducing discontent in the colony is by building temples or utilizing other Christian-inspired religious figures (missionaries, the pope, etc)."

One of the primary ways of quelling local discontent is religious indoctrination? Seriously?


Yes, it's done through slavery, violence and forcible religious indoctrination - which is absolutely correct for the period. Religion was (and is) primarily a way of controlling people ("Religion is the Opium of the people" - Karl Marx).

This isn't a politically correct game of modern sensibilities, it's very thematic and drawn correctly from the period it comes from.
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Nick Clinite
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Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding the theme of the indigenous unrest track, as it seems both colonial or old world discontent also adds to it. But then if it was any and all discontent, why would the sympathizer card want unrest to happen? (and why is indigenous unrest represented by an angry black dude, if the indigenous people aren't even black? EDIT: or are they not black and it's just the warpaint + distant pics that is confusing me?)
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Nick Clinite
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Kelanen wrote:


This isn't a politically correct game of modern sensibilities, it's very thematic and drawn correctly from the period it comes from.


I'm fine with that, if the game is honest about it (I was even set to introduce the game to people with the line "we're all playing colonial imperialist bastards, hooray!!"), but then I see other people quoting the game about how it's "all about weighing industrialization with humaneness and respecting the values of the locals". What? You can't have it both ways!
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Jonathan Challis
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islan wrote:
Kelanen wrote:


This isn't a politically correct game of modern sensibilities, it's very thematic and drawn correctly from the period it comes from.


I'm fine with that, if the game is honest about it (I was even set to introduce the game to people with the line "we're all playing colonial imperialist bastards, hooray!!"), but then I see other people quoting the game about how it's "all about weighing industrialization with humaneness and respecting the values of the locals". What? You can't have it both ways!


People can say what they like, but the game doesn't quote that...
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si Mon
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Kelanen wrote:
[q="islan"]

People can say what they like, but the game doesn't quote that...


Christophe Boelinger is french, and there is a background culture of black humor that can be hard to understand abroad.

I think that you have to take the game like this: colonialists were cynical egoists who exploited the indigenous people for their own interest, so if you gonna enjoy a game about this terrible fact, you will have to face it and feel it mechanically.

It's ironic in the fact that Boelinger is also making fun of all the worker placement games that tends to put in the shoes of the exploiting elites, without reflecting how cynical you have to be to use people as meeple.
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Darrell Hanning
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I'm not sure which is worse, the interpretations of game mechanisms through cynical lenses, or the grossly inaccurate clumping of all colonists into an aggregate evilness.

A lot of colonists were interested in improving not just their own lot, but that of those around them. Bringing their own faith to others in the New World was not, for most who did it, an act with inimical purpose, but one to establish commonality, offer comfort, and help others.

I know it's popular today to lay all blame for the world's sufferings at the feet of religion, but that is in actuality a naive and simplistic form of revisionism. There was plenty of evil and opportunism in the hearts of many who did not take their own faith seriously, beyond how it could be used to gain personal power. Religion was not to blame, but (once again) how certain men would use it as weapon, while others used it for the greater good.

And that is coming from someone who has read a helluva lot of history written by those who lived through those times, and is an agnostic, to boot. In short, I have "no horse in this race", save for the one that runs for historical accuracy.
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jamuki (Jueguetistorias)
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There's another way of looking at it, which may be more positive for religion, if you may - at least for the Spanish colonies, it was the church who provided a semblance of education and care for the indigenous people - you can see a lot of examples of that (Bartolome de las Casas, for instance). I am not saying whether religion or not was good (it is not something to discuss here, I guess, and I have not really a horse here either), what I am saying is that the only organized relief and care (be it little or big) that the indigenous people found in the Spanish Empire used to come from the Church and the Crown (but the Crown was too far away and it relied on the Church for many things).

What I am trying to say is that you can see religion as a way that the Old World powers (the Crown) to try to make the lives of the indigenous slightly less miserable.
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Rollo Tomosi
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So you are saying this is part game, and part 'cynical' statement of a 'terrible fact' of 'exploiting indigenous people' in which the French find 'black humor.'?

Moshimon wrote:
Kelanen wrote:
[q="islan"]

People can say what they like, but the game doesn't quote that...


Christophe Boelinger is french, and there is a background culture of black humor that can be hard to understand abroad.

I think that you have to take the game like this: colonialists were cynical egoists who exploited the indigenous people for their own interest, so if you gonna enjoy a game about this terrible fact, you will have to face it and feel it mechanically.

It's ironic in the fact that Boelinger is also making fun of all the worker placement games that tends to put in the shoes of the exploiting elites, without reflecting how cynical you have to be to use people as meeple.
 
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John Rogers
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DarrellKH wrote:
I'm not sure which is worse, the interpretations of game mechanisms through cynical lenses, or the grossly inaccurate clumping of all colonists into an aggregate evilness.

A lot of colonists were interested in improving not just their own lot, but that of those around them. Bringing their own faith to others in the New World was not, for most who did it, an act with inimical purpose, but one to establish commonality, offer comfort, and help others.

I know it's popular today to lay all blame for the world's sufferings at the feet of religion, but that is in actuality a naive and simplistic form of revisionism. There was plenty of evil and opportunism in the hearts of many who did not take their own faith seriously, beyond how it could be used to gain personal power. Religion was not to blame, but (once again) how certain men would use it as weapon, while others used it for the greater good.

And that is coming from someone who has read a helluva lot of history written by those who lived through those times, and is an agnostic, to boot. In short, I have "no horse in this race", save for the one that runs for historical accuracy.


In a similar vein, a friend of mine had a professor who tied the origins of colonialism and racisim exclusively to Imperial Europeans. It was his opinion that only Europeans were capable of exploiting other cultures and that among their primary tools was religion i.e. Christianity. Furthermore, he made the claim that all white are inherently racist and are the only people who did and continue to practice the mass exploration of others.

That guy was a total idiot. At the same time I was reading Guns, Germs, and Steel and offered the opinion that Europeans had the means via resources and Geography to engage in Imperialism while others like Native Americans and Africans did not. If the situations had been reversed it would have been Americans and Africans who would have engaged in colonialism. That is, skin color or geographic origin does not make one inherently evil.
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Matthew M
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