Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization» Forums » General

Subject: Random thoughts while waiting rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
DominiGeek
Dominican Republic
Santo Domingo
D.N.
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I always thought the original name was a bit long, if this is final, it would make for a longer name and prone to confusion. Maybe something like “Through the Ages: A New Story” would keep it shorter and more differentiated form the 1st. edition.

Also, I guess the cover will be suficiently different to avoid confusion. I wish they made it look like a big history book from Ancient times. No images of soldiers or leaders, just a big sober history book. Although if they want to appeal to a broader audience this wouldn´t work.

Hope this comes out as scheduled at Essen, so there´s hope the Spanish version will follow shortly afterwards.

Got any random thoughts? share while we all wait impatiently.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I think the development process for the new version should have taken a year longer with more playtesting and tweaking. This version seems like it was a bit rushed.


I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic.

How do you know how much playtesting and tweaking there was?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
Norway
Oslo
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't say that the developement has been rushed. However, it seems like a 2015 Essen release is a very strong objective.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Washington
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Through the Ages, board game. A civilization barely alive.

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology.

We have the capability to make the world's first bionic game.

Through the Ages will be that game.

Better than it was before. Better... stronger... faster.

[to the music of the 6 million dollar man opening]

shake It is a RANDOM thoughts thread
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey Speer
United States
Fargo
North Dakota
flag msg tools
Gravity Falls
badge
Remember, reality is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, buy gold, bye!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I think the development process for the new version should have taken a year longer with more playtesting and tweaking. This version seems like it was a bit rushed.


I don't know, I think there's been approximately ~7 years of playtesting, given that the original came out that long ago.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If they make a more popular game with broader appeal then I think that's great. More playtesting wouldn't discourage them from doing that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey Speer
United States
Fargo
North Dakota
flag msg tools
Gravity Falls
badge
Remember, reality is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, buy gold, bye!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I can sort of see your point, I am thinking that no one found one thing in Through the Ages that was as one-sided as say, the Halifax Hammer from A Few Acres of Snow. That was kind of what I meant.

If something in Through the Ages stuck out as badly as that, someone would have discovered it since 2006 I would think.

Given that there are many high level players of TTA, which I can freely admit I am not, I am less concerned that there is something so off that it wasn't discovered.

I can understand the fear of the changes to the new edition of the game, but as a person who does enjoy the game, I don't see problems with the changes outlined.

I would have more problems if Vlaada wasn't working on this, but since he is, I'm just fine with it.

I haven't played one of his games I didn't like, and while I understand some of the criticisms leveled at this, I don't think anyone is really in a position to talk about what is and isn't involved with playtesting.

Reading the threads, I see a lot of "well, why weren't the players consulted about" - and I find it ridiculous. The game isn't designed by committee, but by someone with a singular vision. The breadth and scope of the games I've played by this one designer have proven to me that he really knows how to interlock something, and that the groups of people he DOES test his games with obviously know how to playtest.

TLDR; it's fine, Mr. Chvatil knows what's what. (and I'm not trying to exclude anyone else who may have worked on / contributed )
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pater Absurdus
United States
Carrollton
Texas
flag msg tools
There's really no wrong way to use a margarita pool
badge
"What is best in Life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kaworu17 wrote:


I would have more problems if Vlaada wasn't working on this, but since he is, I'm just fine with it.


It may be naive but I take it on faith that it will be balanced. Vlaada seems very good at making complex games that work well and with the thousands of games played online the data there should give good feedback about what things need to be made weaker or stronger.

I was happy with the balance before so as long as it is just as balanced then I am not worried.

It looks very exciting!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Sporre
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I also think it's silly that he supposedly removed holy war because he no longer likes what people do in the name of religion.


The primary reason (at least the one mentioned first) was because it can destroy other players.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I'm sure the new version will be fine for what it is, I was just hoping for a greater set of cards to choose from.


Having a redesign printed gives you by far the best chance of that. If the game is well received there will very likely be an expansion; this has been the pattern with his other games.

Quote:
I also think it's silly that he supposedly removed holy war because he no longer likes what people do in the name of religion.


I think it's one of the most pleasant things I've heard in years.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I know you do bubbe


How could you have known what I think about games modeling religious conflicts? I don't think I've ever said anything about that until this moment.

Maybe you are just psychic.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DominiGeek
Dominican Republic
Santo Domingo
D.N.
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Steinman wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I also think it's silly that he supposedly removed holy war because he no longer likes what people do in the name of religion.


The primary reason (at least the one mentioned first) was because it can destroy other players.
Was war over territory removed as well then? That one has a very similar effect.


Holy War really leaves a bad taste when you lose one big time. Still, I would have prefer they left one in and change the name (fanatic war?). I like the diversity of the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pater Absurdus
United States
Carrollton
Texas
flag msg tools
There's really no wrong way to use a margarita pool
badge
"What is best in Life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I think there's a misunderstanding in what I'm alluding to when I say rushed and more playtesting, Im not concerned with the balance. I'm sure the new version will be fine for what it is, I was just hoping for a greater set of cards to choose from. Such as shuffle a deck of 12 leaders per age and randomly choose the 6 needed which then get shuffled into the appropriate age deck. Do the same for wonders so that the 4 needed are added as well as for aggressions, events and tactics. I was hoping for more playtesting with ideas like this.


In one of the news posts it was indicated that there would be an expansion with new cards as well.

I am super excited about picking this up so I prefer that they give us the new base and then the expansion can come out 2016.

KissaTaikuri wrote:
I also think it's silly that he supposedly removed holy war because he no longer likes what people do in the name of religion.


I agree. Wars in the name of religion are a part of history, civilization, and the world. But they area also uber gross. So, although it is silly I get the avoidance.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Sporre
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Steinman wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I also think it's silly that he supposedly removed holy war because he no longer likes what people do in the name of religion.


The primary reason (at least the one mentioned first) was because it can destroy other players.
Was war over territory removed as well then? That one has a very similar effect.


In 2.3 it was still there, but it had been weakened to 1 token per 5 strength.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Sporre
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Kaworu17 wrote:
Reading the threads, I see a lot of "well, why weren't the players consulted about" - and I find it ridiculous. The game isn't designed by committee, but by someone with a singular vision.
I'm one of the jackasses who suggested consulting the fans and didn't notice any others. Why is it so ridiculous? GRR Martin did this for a game of thrones (a song of ice and fire) and I think the series has benefitted from it. He had forgotten a lot and relied on the fans to help him out which has breathed new life into the series; it's more popular than ever and he even let hbo make story changes for the tv show. He acknowledged that his fans knew his work better than he did. Vlaada is my favorite designer and I own almost all of his games but he's a busy man. I don't see why the idea is so abhorrent.


Just to clear up your GRRM reference: The things he forgets about and that he likes to bring up when he talks about the super-fan Elio Garcia are tiny minuscule details (like the colour of the eyes of a character mentioned once or twice) - not things that really affect the story. He doesn't invite people to come up with ideas for his story. Elio gets early finished scripts for proof-reading but he isn't an editor.
He "let" HBO make changes to his story the moment he sold them the rights to the series
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walter Kolczynski
United States
College Park
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Kaworu17 wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
I think the development process for the new version should have taken a year longer with more playtesting and tweaking. This version seems like it was a bit rushed.


I don't know, I think there's been approximately ~7 years of playtesting, given that the original came out that long ago.
Well, there's been about that long of playing which isn't the same as playtesting; the former for fun and the latter for development. Vlaada has stated long ago when asked questions that he hadn't looked at the game for a long time as he was busy developing other games. It's not like he's been involved in any long term thought process over the game since its release.

This is a new version with altered play. They could have incorporated the cards from the polish, czech, spanish, and bgo versions but claimed a lack of time, why the rush? Sacrificing and holy war are gone, military has been neutered, and the tactics system sounds slightly better but strange and introduces other problems. It's not the same game anymore and they've pushed it for this year's essen.

From the reports it sounds like development and testing have only gone on for the last 8 months or so. Many, like myself, were hoping for a deluxe edition of sorts with rebalancing and tweaking of existing systems and incorporating the overseas bonus content that the u.s. version never got. This revamp, however, will likely appeal to a larger audience which is a good move for more sales but a bit disconcerting for veterans of the game as you can see by the comments in the forums.

I think you're reading too much into playtest reports. In general, the playtester pool gradually increases as time goes on. The new edition was announced 14 months ago, and it makes sense that work had already begun at that point.

And, even though there are substantial changes, it is not like they are starting from scratch. Not only are most of the mechanisms similar (and therefore known to be "fun"), but a decade of play has informed the current unfun and unbalanced stuff that need work, AND provides high-level experienced playtesters into the beta.

People are pointing to the non-inclusion of extra leaders/wonders as proof this is being "rushed". I don't think that's fair. They have a deadline they want to meet, and I don't think leaving out what amounts to an included expansion qualifies as being "rushed".

I have faith that the new version will be even more awesome than the original.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DominiGeek
Dominican Republic
Santo Domingo
D.N.
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Card Changes
Here´s a summary of the most detailed changes I´ve seen so far, given by a member of the Spanish board gaming community, that participated in the testing process. Forgive any typos, this is a free translation and I´m only highlighting changes. The list is not exhaustive of all changes on cards.

The full post can be seen here in Spanish:

http://labsk.net/index.php?topic=158109.msg1493456#new

“Testing is over, I have a good feeling regarding the new version, those of you with many plays of the game must feel a sense of repetition, that a good share of the games pass through some similar phases. This happens less in the new version, there are more paths to the end.

Some changes:
Military techs, change their science values (Air Forces goes to 12 instead of 11)

Age INFANTRY/ CAVALRY/ ARTILLERY
I 4/ 5/ -
II 6/ 6/ 6
III 10/ 9/ 8

All theaters and Arenas are 1 resource cheaper.

Governments have been revised in the number of science needed:
Monarchy 2(8) Theology 1(6) +1 strength
Republic 3(13) Const. Monarchy 6(12)
Democracy 9(17) +3 Culture
Communism 5(19) Fundamentalism 7(18) and -2 science.

More minor changes: Printing press is 3 rocks cheaper and Computers goes to 11.

WONDERS:
Age A: Colossus lose the culture and gets +2 strength besides the colonization bonus
Alexandria keeps everything but only 3 construction phases (1/4/1)

AGE 1: Saint Pete´s Basilica gives a happy face and 1 happy face per other card that gives happy faces.
Taj Mahal: keeps everything and cost 2 CA less to get if there´s a leader change on the turn.

AGE 2
Ocean Liner: 1 free worker every turn. The construction phase is now 4/2/2/4
Railroad: +4 Strength and construction phase is now 3/3/3/3
Kremlin: Only 1 unhappy face and 2 culture instead of 3.

AGE 3
Space Flight: Construction phase is now 1/2/4/9
Hollywood: 2 culture for each culture point produced by theaters and libraries
Internet: 1 Culture for each science, culture and strength point given by urban buildings.”
6 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.