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Navajo Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Subjugation of New Mexico effects - every time? rss

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It's a common scenario: Pueblo Revolt removes the red cubes from the Subjugation box. Then eventually all 3 red cubes find their way back to the Subjugation box, at which point you suffer effects (flip the A, B, and F counters to their "Raid" side, reset cubes, +1 Enemy Morale) and further Enemy APs get +3.

But then you get card 4, Apache War in Mexico, and one of the red cubes leaves the Subjugation box, leaving 2 behind.

And THEN the third red cube eventually gets back to the Subjugation box. At this point, do we have to suffer all of the bummer effects (the stuff italicized above) AGAIN?
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David Hebart-Coleman
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Its been awhile - but I would play the effects listed above the first time only - thematically for me the Apache Raids shake the confidence of the New Mexicans and make them question the value of the raids in the future. But perhaps I have always played that wrong.
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West Ward Hough
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I do reapply the effects. I would think the rules support this.

Thematically, it is not crazy to think that they get a Morale boost from putting down the Pueblo Revolt, and then a Morale boost from restabilizing the situation after pulling the third red cube in after card 4.
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I probably just feel cheated that Enemy Morale doesn't go down during Apache War!
 
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Peter Kossits
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The effects happen every time, but you have a Golden opportunity to profit from it by doing Passage Of Time with less than 3 reds in the bowl. This is often a game winning strategy.

Check step 10 of Passage Of Time on page 8.
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Vez A
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gatorskin wrote:
all 3 red cubes find their way back to the Subjugation box ... and further Enemy APs get +3.

Not sure if I read you correctly here but, as far as I know, the +1/+2/+3 enemy APs do not get added there when the first/second/hhird cube goes into the box but rather that's the number of extra APs (minus cubes in the raided cubes box, if any) the enemy gets each time at the start of the enemy actions.

Or so I've been playing it at least.
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gatorskin wrote:
And THEN the third red cube eventually gets back to the Subjugation box. At this point, do we have to suffer all of the bummer effects (the stuff italicized above) AGAIN?

I'd say yes:

Quote:
Subjugation of New Mexico Box: This box is used only to hold red cubes that have been drawn from the Raid Pool. Red cubes inside this box represent the level of internal control the Spanish, Mexicans, and/or Americans exercise over the territory of New Mexico. Whenever a red cube is placed into this box, after placing the cube, consult the Subjugation of New Mexico chart to determine its effect.

And the table says to apply the corresponding effect(s) each time a red cube is drawn and added to the box.

I agree with you that it seems "wrong" that Enemy's morale doesn't get a -1 when the hold on New Mexico decrease a bit, but maybe Joe had a thematically sound reason.
 
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Paul Dodds
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"If you only read the books that everyone else is reading, you can only think what everyone else is thinking."
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Just to confirm what others have said: the effect is applied every time.

As Peter pointed out while the Enemy Morale doesn't decrease because of this happening, you have the opportunity to decrease Enemy Morale using a Passage of Time. It really can be a game winner.

To have an auto decrease of something as important Morale as the result of a card draw would feel "wrong" for a challenging game like this. Having the opportunity to exploit this card draw by setting yourself up for some Passage of Time operations feels much more "right" to me!
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Peter Kossits
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When you calculate how many enemy actions are coming in, you look at how many red cubes are in the subjugation box and it's +1 for each cube. You're doing it right.

masil wrote:
gatorskin wrote:
all 3 red cubes find their way back to the Subjugation box ... and further Enemy APs get +3.

Not sure if I read you correctly here but, as far as I know, the +1/+2/+3 enemy APs do not get added there when the first/second/hhird cube goes into the box but rather that's the number of extra APs (minus cubes in the raided cubes box, if any) the enemy gets each time at the start of the enemy actions.

Or so I've been playing it at least.
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Peter Kossits
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You know that you will need to do at least one passage of time to balance out the enemy Morale boost in the future when the 3 reds go back in.

The exciting thing is trying to squeeze more than one Passage Of Time in, so that you can make a profit. And it gets very exciting when another Apache War happens and the red cubes come down to 1 and you might actually have a significant amount of time before the 3rd cube comes back.

Kyuss wrote:
Just to confirm what others have said: the effect is applied every time.

As Peter pointed out while the Enemy Morale doesn't decrease because of this happening, you have the opportunity to decrease Enemy Morale using a Passage of Time. It really can be a game winner.

To have an auto decrease of something as important Morale as the result of a card draw would feel "wrong" for a challenging game like this. Having the opportunity to exploit this card draw by setting yourself up for some Passage of Time operations feels much more "right" to me!
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peterk1 wrote:
The exciting thing is trying to squeeze more than one Passage Of Time in, so that you can make a profit. And it gets very exciting when another Apache War happens and the red cubes come down to 1 and you might actually have a significant amount of time before the 3rd cube comes back.


I had this happen! Very dramatic.
 
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Peter Kossits
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It's a great mechanism - especially since YOU are the one picking the reds from the bag. So while you are doing this, you're certainly trying not to raid, but when you do lots of passage of times you might need sheep for food. And meanwhile, the outposts are piling up. You need to get rid of them, but you might draw a red. Awesome stuff.

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