James
United Kingdom
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hi, I'm running through the second operating round of my first (solo learning) game. It is the first opportuniy to run trains and I could do with an experienced head to help make sure I'm reading things correctly. Here's the situation:

It is pahse B.

The EUR has two 1-freight trains, each has a 'reach' in hexes of train + 1, so the EUR can travel cross 4 hexes in between 2 starting locations. Is this correct, or do the starting stations and off-map areas count towards the range?

The 2 trains run from the the port at Harwich to a vacant station at Sudbury. There are two intervening hexes - Harwhich and Colcehester. Colchester contains EUR's home station.

So, the revenus for this run is as follows: 70 for Holland, 30 for the terminating station at Sudbury (30 printed within a circle on the hex tile), 30 for each of the 2 intervening hexes. Totaling 160.

The EUR marker is placed on the 160 space on the revenue track. During the dividend action if a dividend is paid each 10% share gains 10% of the revenue. In the case the director gets £48 + £16 per additional share. If the dividend is witheld I do not know what happens. Does the £160 got to the company's treasury or is it lost?

After the stock market is adjusted as necessary, the marker on the revenue track is removed and the process is repeated in the next operating round.

How does all this sound? I was a little unsure about where exactly a company's station markers have to be in a particular route - I understand the start and end can be any off-map area or station so I am assuming an intervening hex must contain a friendly station. I am not convinced I've got that right though.

Sorry if this stuff has been covered elsewhere or seems obvious but it is my first xx game and I'm trying to get it straight in my head before teaching the game. The rulebook is generally an easy read but lacks clarity in a couple of places, or perhaps there is an assumed level of knowledge.

Thanks for reading such a long post!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James
United Kingdom
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Oh, and further question: If the EUR in the example is a chartered company and pays out for the 60% of shares possessed by players, what becomes of the remaining 40% of shares? I understand a non-chartered company would take the money for shares yet to be bought and the shares for certificates in the bank pool are lost but what about shares in the IPO? Lost aswell?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
James, a 1 Freight train has the power of crossing 1 hexside. So two 1 Freight trains (which must run end to end) can cross 2 hexsides.

Your EUR revenue example is correct, assuming 160 was the right revenue. If the company withholds, the 160 goes into the company treasury.

You leave the marker on the revenue track because knowing what a company earned the previous OR is helpful in figuring out what it can earn this OR.

For every train, one of the cities it visits must have a company station. It can be in the middle.

[Edited in response to Eric Flood's comment; thanks!]
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dividends paid for shares in the stock market, or for chartered shares that are still in the IPO, go back to the bank. (Essentially, whoever contributed the money to capital for those shares will be expecting the dividends.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James
United Kingdom
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Quote:
If the dividend is witheld I do not know what happens. Does the £160 got to the company's treasury or is it lost?


I think I have an answer to this. On the bullet point list of actions it says Pay revenue as dividends or retain the revenue as company income. I'll take that to mean Revenue is placed in the company's treasury.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Gallagher
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
moujamou wrote:
The EUR has two 1-freight trains, each has a 'reach' in hexes of train + 1, so the EUR can travel cross 4 hexes in between 2 starting locations. Is this correct, or do the starting stations and off-map areas count towards the range?

The two 1-freight trains act as ONE 2-freight train, per section 7.8.1 of the rules. The only time that freight trains can run independently is if you have two permanent freight trains.

moujamou wrote:
The EUR marker is placed on the 160 space on the revenue track. During the dividend action if a dividend is paid each 10% share gains 10% of the revenue. In the case the director gets £48 + £16 per additional share. If the dividend is withheld I do not know what happens. Does the £160 got to the company's treasury or is it lost?

Each share gets £16 in the event the company pays out. So the director's share would get 30%, or £48.

If dividends are withheld, the company gets the entire £160. The share price drops (move the marker one place to the left).

moujamou wrote:
How does all this sound? I was a little unsure about where exactly a company's station markers have to be in a particular route - I understand the start and end can be any off-map area or station so I am assuming an intervening hex must contain a friendly station. I am not convinced I've got that right though.

Correct. Note that at least one train must run through your "home" station (the thick one). Every other train must touch that original run of the first train at a city or town, and run through one of that company's stations.

Unique to this game, those trains may use the same track. However, no city or town can gain revenue from more than one train (again, another unique feature about the game).

moujamou wrote:
Thanks for reading such a long post!

No problem!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Flood
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moujamou wrote:
The EUR has two 1-freight trains, each has a 'reach' in hexes of train + 1, so the EUR can travel cross 4 hexes in between 2 starting locations. Is this correct, or do the starting stations and off-map areas count towards the range?


The two 1H freight can count an offboard and two hexes, or three hexes total, in a continuous line. The way you should count it is the sum of your freight train numbers is the number of hex edges you may cross, when at least one freight train is not permanent.

Quote:
The 2 trains run from the the port at Harwich to a vacant station at Sudbury. There are two intervening hexes - Harwhich and Colcehester. Colchester contains EUR's home station.

So, the revenus for this run is as follows: 70 for Holland, 30 for the terminating station at Sudbury (30 printed within a circle on the hex tile), 30 for each of the 2 intervening hexes. Totaling 160.


The trains would only run from Holland to Colchester. Colchester would be 40 or 60 depending on yellow or green N tile. Otherwise, correct - for a total of 70 + (40 or 60) + 30 = 140 or 160.

Quote:
The EUR marker is placed on the 160 space on the revenue track. During the dividend action if a dividend is paid each 10% share gains 10% of the revenue. In the case the director gets £48 + £16 per additional share. If the dividend is witheld I do not know what happens. Does the £160 got to the company's treasury or is it lost?


If you payout, each shareholder gets their 10%/share. Any shares in the bank pool are paid by the bank to the bank. Any shares in IPO (for companies which start in the Stock Round rather than Parliament Round) or treasury get paid to company treasury. If you withhold, all money goes to treasury.

Quote:
After the stock market is adjusted as necessary, the marker on the revenue track is removed and the process is repeated in the next operating round.


The revenue marker isn't really necessary. You can keep it where it is in between. Most people don't even bother with it until the last few rounds, because revenues fluctuate wildly round-by-round. OR3.1 might see the EUR with a revenue of $200, while OR3.2 might see it with only $50.

Quote:
How does all this sound? I was a little unsure about where exactly a company's station markers have to be in a particular route - I understand the start and end can be any off-map area or station so I am assuming an intervening hex must contain a friendly station. I am not convinced I've got that right though.


Every train must touch at least one station. This includes when you stack freight trains in a row - those two 1H freight trains from before must *each* touch a station. This means you need a station in both Harwhich and Colcehester. If you are running a 2H train, for exactly the same route and revenue, you only need a station in one of the two locations. If Harwich is fully occupied by other companies' tokens, however, you cannot go through it - although you are allowed to include it in the run as a terminus.

Quote:
Sorry if this stuff has been covered elsewhere or seems obvious but it is my first xx game and I'm trying to get it straight in my head before teaching the game. The rulebook is generally an easy read but lacks clarity in a couple of places, or perhaps there is an assumed level of knowledge.


It is not an easy 18xx game to learn as your first, at least without an experienced player to teach you; in fact it is rather close to one of the most difficult. I would highly recommend grabbing a copy of 1889, 18Neb, or 1830, and learning or playing one of those first.

1862 is relatively newbie-friendly in that it is difficult to really kill yourself early on, and it should be easily possible for all players to remain relevant for the entirety of the game, but the rules are rather prohibitively difficult to learn. 1830, on the other hand, has relatively simple rules but it is extremely probable a new player will kill themselves out of the game without having any idea why/how they wound up in this position.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Flood
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eric Brosius wrote:
Your EUR revenue example is correct.


It is actually not correct, as two 1T freights cannot go from Holland to Sudbury.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James
United Kingdom
Sheffield
South Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Great stuff, thanks everyone - I really appreciate your help. After a handful of ORs it started to hang together a bit more. Describing the range of freight trains in terms of hexsides crossed is easier to grasp than the way it is worded in the book.

On a similar note, for the purposes of calculating revenue for an express train are ports and red areas considered stations?

Quote:
1862 is relatively newbie-friendly in that it is difficult to really kill yourself early on, and it should be easily possible for all players to remain relevant for the entirety of the game, but the rules are rather prohibitively difficult to learn.


Yeah, I can certainly see this. The rules are a bit fiddly but no more so than a lot of wargames so I reckon a good bit of repetition will do the trick, although I think teaching the game will be tricky. Maybe introduce one player at a time and keep the sessions relatively short.

I intend to knock up an 1889 pnp kit too but I do think this one is worth sticking with. I enjoyed the session and I expect I'll have further queries..

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moujamou wrote:
On a similar note, for the purposes of calculating revenue for an express train are ports and red areas considered stations?

Yes.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Flood
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moujamou wrote:
Great stuff, thanks everyone - I really appreciate your help. After a handful of ORs it started to hang together a bit more. Describing the range of freight trains in terms of hexsides crossed is easier to grasp than the way it is worded in the book.

On a similar note, for the purposes of calculating revenue for an express train are ports and red areas considered stations?

Quote:
1862 is relatively newbie-friendly in that it is difficult to really kill yourself early on, and it should be easily possible for all players to remain relevant for the entirety of the game, but the rules are rather prohibitively difficult to learn.


Yeah, I can certainly see this. The rules are a bit fiddly but no more so than a lot of wargames so I reckon a good bit of repetition will do the trick, although I think teaching the game will be tricky. Maybe introduce one player at a time and keep the sessions relatively short.

I intend to knock up an 1889 pnp kit too but I do think this one is worth sticking with. I enjoyed the session and I expect I'll have further queries..


I thought http://www.goldenspikegames.com/ was expediting 1889, it's a shame to see I am wrong. They are doing 18Neb, which I really recommend as a very newbie friendly (while still interesting for experienced players) game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
blueatheart wrote:
I thought http://www.goldenspikegames.com/ was expediting 1889, it's a shame to see I am wrong.


Instead All-Aboard Games is expediting 1889 (and 18Mex and 1817).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Goch
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yuglooc wrote:

The two 1-freight trains act as ONE 2-freight train, per section 7.8.1 of the rules.



How literally true is this? For instance, if I have 1 1F and 2 2F trains would they combined run exactly as a 5F train? The main difference I might see is that a 5F train could run its route with a single token and that the combined trains would need at least 2 tokens to run. Or can the combined trains literally be treated the same as a 5F and run across 5 hexsides using only one station token?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Every train needs its own token.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They're like a 5F except that each individual train must touch a station.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Goch
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eric Brosius wrote:
They're like a 5F except that each individual train must touch a station.


Thanks. The "head to head" explanation makes sense but then saying that some combination of non permanent freight trains "would act the same as" a freight train of their sum is a little confounding.

As I understand it even an F2 + an F3 wouldn't act exactly the same as an F5. An F5 would allow you to run 1 hex side from a token in one direction and 4 hex sides in another direction (or even 5 hex sides in one direction) but the combination of trains would require you to run (at most) 2 hex sides in one direction and 3 in the other.

I was having a hard time wrapping my head around these, ahem, counterintuitive trains when play the game for the first time last week.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
As I understand it even an F2 + an F3 wouldn't act exactly the same as an F5. An F5 would allow you to run 1 hex side from a token in one direction and 4 hex sides in another direction (or even 5 hex sides in one direction) but the combination of trains would require you to run (at most) 2 hex sides in one direction and 3 in the other.

Correct.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.