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Subject: How about colored dice for Dominance? rss

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Tom Maertz
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You know how Dominance is almost never correct at any given time on the board?

How about using colored dice to not only mark the player but the controlling number? I think this would promote players noticing changes in Dominance much more easily.

Wakrob
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John Bradshaw
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Re: How about colored dice for Dominace?
I've just ordered coloured dice for similar use in the game A Distant Plain, to record population controlled or supporting the various factions. It's a drag having to count things every 2 minutes, especially with any AP prone players. It looks to me like an excellent idea though I've not played DS in a long time and don't remember it well, so don't know how much it might improve the gameplay in this instance.

Go for it! And let us know how well it works.
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Jonathan C
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CptBlood wrote:
You know how Dominance is almost never correct at any given time on the board?


Not really...
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PJ Killian
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I've played the game with tiny little dice marking dominance and without them. My personal feeling is that they can be a useful teaching tool in a game where there's only one person who really gets the dominance rules but ultimately I feel like they're more trouble than they're worth -- the work of calculating dominance needs to be done either way and it's easier to just check dominance when things change. Once everyone at the table has the hang of how to calculate dominance (which takes probably the better part of one game), the best way to maintain the cones is enlightened self-interest -- when elements hit the board or leave the board or the animals gain or lose elements on their cards, everyone who stands to gain should check to see if they have new cones to play. Many hands end up making light work. This has the benefit of keeping everyone paying attention even when it's not their turn, which speeds up the game in general.
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Isaac Marx
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A detailed discussion of this topic can be found here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/732790/idea-quick-calculati...

Not sure how current the info is with regards to specific suppliers of dice, but it's a good place to start if you are interested.
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Ken Sinn
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We use coloured dice from Chessex:
http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Opaque%20Dice/25402.htm
25802 12mm d6 Yellow/Black Dice Block™ (36-Dice) $5.95

They come in a clear container of 36 cubes.

Definitely a great teaching aid, but as with the regular game, you'll often forget to update the dominance on certain tiles, until the domination phase. You'll want to put dice for every player who is on that tile, not just the dominating player. There's still plenty of space for the regular species cubes too.

Someone else suggested using the dice from Panamax, if you happen to have that game.
 
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David Pereira
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No way I'm going to put away my dominance markers

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Isaac Marx
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davidallves wrote:
No way I'm going to put away my dominance markers

No reason you can't still use them.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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Not really sure how dice solves the problem.

Maybe just pay attention if you are the CLOSE 2nd in control. As Dominance is key in control, each player should be aware of who can change dominance.

So you have the Mammal Die set to 4...THAT isn't the problem...The problem is who is the next likely person to take that away...You still have to look around and determine that Visually.

It really isn't that hard. Checks only necessary at certain points during the turn.
Personally, I check After Adaptation as this will likely have a large impact. Also, Wanderlust IF the resource is placed on an existing vertex of hexes.

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Paul Evans
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I actually think this would inhibit correct dominance - as people would have a false confidence in the accuracy of the die values. With practise dominance it really easy to calculate. The is hardly ever more than three animals contesting, and the calc is easy.
 
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Tom Maertz
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PaulEvans wrote:
and the calc is easy.


Its not about math, its about focus. Any given 6 player game we have at least 2 players that are just there to be social. They 'play' but probably will never win.
Im trying to focus on my own game and dont want to police the Dominance situation all the time.
 
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Tim Burris
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Then don't, let them or the players that are competing with them for dominance worry about it. You can still keep a watchful eye without feeling responsible for counting dominance. Dice sounds like it will just make more work for somebody (likely you if you already feel like you are the one maintaining structure and advancing the game). Multiplying single-digit numbers and adding the results is not difficult.

I think that how the rules handle dominance is great. No need to worry about attempting to rewind the game state if you realize too late that dominance had not been checked. The player who wants to claim dominance has to actively claim it, the rules of the game do not give it to them automatically. This actually simplifies matters since no one person ever has to worry about dominance on tiles they aren't competing for, and it gives players incentive to pay attention to the state of the board and what the players they are competing for dominance with are doing. Even people who are "just their to be social" shouldn't have too many problems if they are at all interested in actually playing.
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Matt Cassidy
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You are only ever dominant on a space if:

1) You notice that you are dominant and put your marker down
2) Someone else notices that you are dominant and calls attention to it.

The maintenance of Dominance is a part of the game and if you want to take advantage of Dominance you need to be one paying attention to it. There have been times where I mentally note a change in dominance on a hex but because I would rather the current player maintain dominance I don't call attention to it.

I agree with everything Tim said in the post above except "This actually simplifies matters since no one person ever has to worry about dominance on tiles they aren't competing for.." as I do feel that the status of dominance in hexes I don't occupy can still have an effect on my game - so I keep tabs. But I also feel that you could only ever worry about your own hexes and do well.

So, anything that adds to the automation of dominance takes away from the game a little imo.

Although I don't know that adding dice would really help anything. I guess the idea is that when I enter a hex I count my dominance and put a die down, and if I add or lose an element I change my die number on the affected hexes? In the end there is still the task of calculating my dominance and rotating the die so I can't see that I have actually gained anything. Other than something else to maintain on the board. You still have the issue of making sure that all of those dice are showing the correct number.
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Bruno Maciel
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I've been using them to mark tile dominance.

We found it saves an average of 30 min of game length when you use them.
It's easier to anyone know the dominance "power" in each tile, so we don't have to make math every single minute of the game.

Sometimes it can get fiddly, with all the changes that happen in a single turn, but it has been tested with and without (with the same number of players) and the game length was always shorter when we played with them!
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We used small dice to record dominance, but the constant checking and rechecking every time something chsnged killed the game for us.
It became too much like work and not a fun.

Were prob never going to play this again, which is tragic as its a great design albeit fundamentally flawed imho.
 
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Kyle
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I'm highly skeptical that dice would save any time at all. Once you have played a few games it flies by. Changing dice all the time seems like more work for nothing.

What I do with new players: Attempt to get them to hold off adjusting anything until the domination phase (the only time dominance matters), as generally people will know if they lost it before then and act accordingly, stops too many interjections slowing everything down. Then go over the board very quickly. So you give 6-7 checks over the game really.

Otherwise, the rules state 'change unannounced doesn't happen', sucks to be your opponent if they miss it.
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