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Dungeon Dice: Guilds» Forums » Rules

Subject: Full Class power while assisting? rss

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Chuck Hurd
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This may be obvious, or assumed, but I'm looking for a consensus on whether I am playing it correctly.

Some of the classes allow you to roll your class die before combat. That applies for sure on your own turn, but when asked to assist are you allowed to use your full Class power and abilities there too, including rolling before combat?

For example, I've been asked to assist in a combat. I activate my Rogue class. Can I then roll my die before the combat, get Invisibility, and sneak in and steal the treasure, thereby shorting the current player and ending the turn? This is a very Rogue-ish thing to do, wouldn't you agree?

And in any case would you get to use other abilities granted by your class die that don't necessarily help in combat, such as the Artificer's abilities?

If you are asked to assist as the Ranger, can you re-roll the Monster die if you roll Trapper?

For those classes that allow you to roll before combat, can you roll before combat as an assistant and decide not to assist based on the result?


 
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Team Ski
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I would think that you would stick with the rules and only apply your equipped and level dice in assists. There is nothing in the rules that would allow anything above that.

-Ski
 
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Todd Pytel
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Carcking wrote:
Some of the classes allow you to roll your class die before combat. That applies for sure on your own turn, but when asked to assist are you allowed to use your full Class power and abilities there too, including rolling before combat?
No. Look at the rules pages for those classes (Ranger, Rogue, Artificer). They clearly state that you're only allowed to roll the class die before combat on your own turn.
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Chuck Hurd
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tppytel wrote:
No. Look at the rules pages for those classes (Ranger, Rogue, Artificer). They clearly state that you're only allowed to roll the class die before combat on your own turn.
Thank you for this! I swear I've read the Guilds rulebook twenty times looking for the answer and have read over those passages many times, and still not seen it. It's clear as a bell now.

As far as using class dice during combat as an assistant - is that allowed? Some of the class abilities like the Bard's Tall Tale seem to imply it as it states that such "Trophies automatically go to the active player."

And if you use the class die while assisting do you get the rolled abilities even though they don't help with the combat, like the Artificer?


 
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Todd Pytel
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Carcking wrote:
As far as using class dice during combat as an assistant - is that allowed?...

And if you use the class die while assisting do you get the rolled abilities even though they don't help with the combat, like the Artificer?
Yes to both.
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Chuck Hurd
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tppytel wrote:
Carcking wrote:
As far as using class dice during combat as an assistant - is that allowed?...

And if you use the class die while assisting do you get the rolled abilities even though they don't help with the combat, like the Artificer?
Yes to both.
Thanks for corroborating!

 
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Team Ski
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tppytel wrote:
Carcking wrote:
As far as using class dice during combat as an assistant - is that allowed?...

And if you use the class die while assisting do you get the rolled abilities even though they don't help with the combat, like the Artificer?
Yes to both.

I disagree. The rules say you can only roll your equipment and level dice. It nowhere says you can use your class dice out of turn. Unless I am missing something. Again, these rules are some of the worst written I have seen in while.

-Ski
 
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Donn Hardy
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Teamski wrote:

I disagree. The rules say you can only roll your equipment and level dice. It nowhere says you can use your class dice out of turn. Unless I am missing something. Again, these rules are some of the worst written I have seen in while.
-Ski

I don't see that anywhere in the Guilds rulebook. It DOES say that Class dice can only be rolled during combat unless specified otherwise. Since I see no limitations on it, I would assume that it would include ALL combat.

These rules may not be perfect, but they are only "the worst written" if you need everything spelled out for you.
 
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Todd Pytel
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Teamski wrote:
I disagree. The rules say you can only roll your equipment and level dice. It nowhere says you can use your class dice out of turn.
As long as you're participating in the combat, you can roll your class die as part of that combat. But you can't roll them independently of combat if you're not involved, apart from the Assassin.

If you want citations, I guess there's the Class Dice section, which states "Class dice may only be rolled during combat..." with no mention of which player is active. But rules clarity aside, this is simply how the game is played, as confirmed by numerous comments and narratives both here and at KS. As Donn states, there's no reason to think you can't roll a class die if you're assisting in a combat.
 
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Todd Pytel
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donnbobhardy wrote:
These rules may not be perfect, but they are only "the worst written" if you need everything spelled out for you.
I don't think it's appropriate to blame the player for wanting clear rules statements. Half the answers that we provide to new players here are based either on unspoken understandings or on one-off clarifications buried in the KS comments rather than on unambiguous citations from the rules.

However, a wide-ranging criticism of the rules probably belongs in a separate thread if people want to go there. I don't think it's a productive discussion myself.
 
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Team Ski
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tppytel wrote:
donnbobhardy wrote:
These rules may not be perfect, but they are only "the worst written" if you need everything spelled out for you.
I don't think it's appropriate to blame the player for wanting clear rules statements. Half the answers that we provide to new players here are based either on unspoken understandings or on one-off clarifications buried in the KS comments rather than on unambiguous citations from the rules.

However, a wide-ranging criticism of the rules probably belongs in a separate thread if people want to go there. I don't think it's a productive discussion myself.

Trust me, I am not the only one that thinks that. The rules have a lot of holes in them and each and every game, I have to figure it all out over again. There were a lot of assumptions built into the rules as they were written. It is obvious that the game's creators never had anybody outside their play testing group review the rules before the game's release.

-Ski
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Donn Hardy
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Sorry. It wasn't meant as an attack. Teamski said in another thread that he plays with a bunch of rules lawyers, so everything has to be explicitly spelled out to prevent arguments. With so many different dice, an exhaustive explanation of every possible situation is impossible. I agree that there are holes, which is why I've been maintaining the FAQ to try to collect any one-off clarifications from both the KSs and here on BGG.

Back on topic, the various abilities definitely imply that they can be used when you assist, and the rules state that class dice are rolled in combat unless stated otherwise. That's good enough for me.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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donnbobhardy wrote:
...the various abilities definitely imply that they can be used when you assist, and the rules state that class dice are rolled in combat unless stated otherwise. That's good enough for me.
I am good with that, and I understand that only certain class dice can be rolled before combat on your turn. Thanks for pulling that all together for me!


Edit: corrected wording.
 
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Team Ski
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Carcking wrote:
donnbobhardy wrote:
...the various abilities definitely imply that they can be used when you assist, and the rules state that class dice are rolled in combat unless stated otherwise. That's good enough for me.
I am good with that, and I understand that certain class dice can only be rolled before combat on your turn. Thanks for pulling that all together for me!

Fair enough!

-Ski
 
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