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Subject: Unofficial FAQ rss

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Colin Sham
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That's exactly what a Cylon would say!
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So I took the time to go through the entire Rules forum, collect and dump them into this:
Unofficial FAQ.

I hope this will cut down on a lot of repeat questions... I don't claim that this is all my own rules understanding, in fact, I learned a lot and a great deal of the content comes directly from the Rules Forum itself.

Please contact me directly if I've messed anything up, or if you have thoughts about how it could be better. I'll start uploading any fixes needed and keep this thing alive.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Quote:
As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
No. Instead, you must meet the following:
- A path is available
- They must go to a Friendly World first
- They can only go to uncontrolled after
They are destroyed if they can't retreat

Wtf is that?

Quote:
Ground units must retreat along a legal path.

Which means friendly worlds only.
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Colin Sham
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Wildhorn wrote:
Quote:
As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
No. Instead, you must meet the following:
- A path is available
- They must go to a Friendly World first
- They can only go to uncontrolled after
They are destroyed if they can't retreat

Wtf is that?

Quote:
Ground units must retreat along a legal path.

Which means friendly worlds only.

Your legal path can end up on an Uncontrolled World if no Friendly Worlds are available. Consider a legal path made of Controlled Voids that end up on an Uncontrolled World.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1415919/retreats
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1407144/some-important-ques...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1398573/retreating-after-at...
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Niko
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Wildhorn wrote:
Quote:
As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
No. Instead, you must meet the following:
- A path is available
- They must go to a Friendly World first
- They can only go to uncontrolled after
They are destroyed if they can't retreat

Wtf is that?

Quote:
Ground units must retreat along a legal path.

Which means friendly worlds only.
A legal path can end in an uncontrolled or even enemy world, otherwise you could never attack via advance orders.

I agree that the "They can only go to uncontrolled after" sounds awkward, but it is correct in that units can retreat to an uncontrolled world.

They only have to go back to where they came from if they didn't attacked via advance.
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Alex Almond
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Touched by theWarp - Can I get a combat upgrade with this?
No. It explicitly says Order upgrade. This is not a Strategize.

- I think your confusing this with the space marine event.

Touched by the warp just states an upgrade limited by cultist numbers.

Wave Serpent This can start combat, it states it on the card itself.

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J Kaemmer
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Wildhorn wrote:
Quote:
As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
No. Instead, you must meet the following:
- A path is available
- They must go to a Friendly World first
- They can only go to uncontrolled after
They are destroyed if they can't retreat

Wtf is that?

Quote:
Ground units must retreat along a legal path.

Which means friendly worlds only.
A legal path can end in an uncontrolled or even enemy world, otherwise you could never attack via advance orders.

I agree that the "They can only go to uncontrolled after" sounds awkward, but it is correct in that units can retreat to an uncontrolled world.

They only have to go back to where they came from if they didn't attacked via advance.

Not Quite. Attackers must retreat to an area where they came from if able. If not, they are destroyed.

Here's my paraphrasing of the official rules for the confusing shit that is retreating:

-You lose, you retreat.
-Ground forces require a legal path to retreat.
-All retreating units are routed
-They must all go to the same area
-The area need not be adjacent to the combat.
-You may exceed a unit capacity during retreat but excess units will be destroyed after.
-Ships to voids, and GF to planets, obviously.
-If you have no place to retreat to, your forces die.
-Units retreating mid-combat avoid damage, remaining troops assign hits as normal.
-Multiple retreats may resolve during combat and may retreat to different locations, but need to follow all other rules.
-Attackers must retreat to an area that at least one unit came from, even if moved by means other than an advance order.
-"Placed" attackers have no legal place to retreat to (because there is not area to call its origin) and are therefore destroyed.
-You must retreat to a friendly area if possible. If not possible you may retreat to an uncontrolled area BUT ONLY AS A DEFENDER.
-Defenders may only retreat within the active system or into an adjacent one.
-Defenders may not retreat to an adjacent system the opponent moved troops from.
-Defenders may not retreat to an area any of the attacker's units moved from.
-Routed units may retreat but may not move in any other fashion.

(Note that the reference guide's description of retreats for attackers has strange language specific to units moved by means other than an advance order- They are probably just missing the word "even" at the beginning of the sentence, as the Learn to Play Rulebook is VERY explicit that "All retreating units must move to the same area, and it must be an area that at least one unit in the combat moved from." The 2 rules do not actually conflict so the golden rule doesn't apply.)
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Colin Sham
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I'm feeling a little exposed based on what's going on with Retreats. My language was too concise, and on top of that, I think it's genuinely confusing.

My sources were:

Retreats...
Some important questions
Retreating after attacking
Some questions about Retreating, especially Attacker Retreats
Rules and where are the answers in the rule's book.
retreating for attacker and defender

I'm not an authority, I was just compiling stuff together because... well, it's complex. I'm going to back off and see if everyone's happy with J's last post...
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J Kaemmer
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Thanks for putting this together. I hope I didn't sound mean. I just think that retreats are probably one of the least understood things in this game and wanted it out there clearly for you.
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Colin Sham
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iswearihaveajob wrote:
Thanks for putting this together. I hope I didn't sound mean. I just think that retreats are probably one of the least understood things in this game and wanted it out there clearly for you.
Not to worry, that was really useful.
Quote:
-You must retreat to a friendly area if possible. If not possible you may retreat to an uncontrolled area BUT ONLY AS A DEFENDER.
I didn't realize this. Which makes my statement grossly incorrect. I'm going to upload a v0.2 in about five minutes.

** And done. Just gotta wait for Geekmods to approve.
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Niko
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iswearihaveajob wrote:
Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Wildhorn wrote:
Quote:
As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
No. Instead, you must meet the following:
- A path is available
- They must go to a Friendly World first
- They can only go to uncontrolled after
They are destroyed if they can't retreat

Wtf is that?

Quote:
Ground units must retreat along a legal path.

Which means friendly worlds only.
A legal path can end in an uncontrolled or even enemy world, otherwise you could never attack via advance orders.

I agree that the "They can only go to uncontrolled after" sounds awkward, but it is correct in that units can retreat to an uncontrolled world.

They only have to go back to where they came from if they didn't attacked via advance.

Not Quite. Attackers must retreat to an area where they came from if able. If not, they are destroyed.

Here's my paraphrasing of the official rules for the confusing shit that is retreating:

-You lose, you retreat.
-Ground forces require a legal path to retreat.
-All retreating units are routed
-They must all go to the same area
-The area need not be adjacent to the combat.
-You may exceed a unit capacity during retreat but excess units will be destroyed after.
-Ships to voids, and GF to planets, obviously.
-If you have no place to retreat to, your forces die.
-Units retreating mid-combat avoid damage, remaining troops assign hits as normal.
-Multiple retreats may resolve during combat and may retreat to different locations, but need to follow all other rules.
-Attackers must retreat to an area that at least one unit came from, even if moved by means other than an advance order.
-"Placed" attackers have no legal place to retreat to (because there is not area to call its origin) and are therefore destroyed.
-You must retreat to a friendly area if possible. If not possible you may retreat to an uncontrolled area BUT ONLY AS A DEFENDER.
-Defenders may only retreat within the active system or into an adjacent one.
-Defenders may not retreat to an adjacent system the opponent moved troops from.
-Defenders may not retreat to an area any of the attacker's units moved from.
-Routed units may retreat but may not move in any other fashion.

(Note that the reference guide's description of retreats for attackers has strange language specific to units moved by means other than an advance order- They are probably just missing the word "even" at the beginning of the sentence, as the Learn to Play Rulebook is VERY explicit that "All retreating units must move to the same area, and it must be an area that at least one unit in the combat moved from." The 2 rules do not actually conflict so the golden rule doesn't apply.)
Yup, I got it wrong the first time since I relied solely on the RRG.

For clarity I'd de-emphasize the "but only as the defender part" right now my first interpretation was that attackers may never retreat to neutral areas which is not true (and I realize that that wasn't the intent).
Simply putting it at the front in non bold would probably do the job; "As the defender you must retreat to a friendly area if possible but may retreat to a neutral area if no path can be traced to a friendly area" conveys the same message without the possible confusion. That's a pretty subjective thing though.

I'm also confused if the section about placed units not being able to retreat applies only if all units where placed or also to placed units in a combat with moved units.
That's a problem with the rules though, not the summary.
NVM, reading some of Colin's sources clarified it for me. As long as at least one unit that is retreating was moved in via advance order they can all retreat.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Wildhorn wrote:
Quote:
As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
No. Instead, you must meet the following:
- A path is available
- They must go to a Friendly World first
- They can only go to uncontrolled after
They are destroyed if they can't retreat

Wtf is that?

Quote:
Ground units must retreat along a legal path.

Which means friendly worlds only.
A legal path can end in an uncontrolled or even enemy world, otherwise you could never attack via advance orders.

I agree that the "They can only go to uncontrolled after" sounds awkward, but it is correct in that units can retreat to an uncontrolled world.

They only have to go back to where they came from if they didn't attacked via advance.

Nope, a legal path is only made of friendly world/void. Your confusion come from the Advance Order, but if you read Advance Order correctly, it allow to reach a zone connected by a legal path, but the destination is not part of the legal path.

Quote:
A legal path is a series of contiguous friendly areas
leading to the destination world. This can include worlds
and/or voids
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Niko
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Wildhorn wrote:
Nope, a legal path is only made of friendly world/void. Your confusion come from the Advance Order, but if you read Advance Order correctly, it allow to reach a zone connected by a legal path, but the destination is not part of the legal path.

Quote:
A legal path is a series of contiguous friendly areas
leading to the destination world. This can include worlds
and/or voids
Correct, but routing also doesn't say that the units must end on the legal path.
The fact that defenders are specifically allowed to retreat to a neutral world along a legal path shows that.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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What I just realized by reading the RRG, and correct me by pointing where it is written, is that while it states that units moved via another way than Advance Order must retreat to an area that an attacker came from, nowhere does it say that the attacker that moved via the Advance Order has to do the same.

Am I right? Which means attacker moved by the Advance Order could in fact retreat to area where they didn't come from?
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Niko
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Wildhorn wrote:
What I just realized by reading the RRG, and correct me by pointing where it is written, is that while it states that units moved via another way than Advance Order must retreat to an area that an attacker came from, nowhere does it say that the attacker that moved via the Advance Order has to do the same.

Am I right? Which means attacker moved by the Advance Order could in fact retreat to area where they didn't come from?
You are right that the RRG doesn't state this (which it really should) but the Learn to Play book has it.
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Björn
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Quote:
Do Tokens count as <blah> for Battle Card Effect?
Yes. They are level 0 units and count as a plastic mini for all card
effect purposes - Ork Boyz, Cultists, AspectWarriors and Scouts;
routed or unrouted

You might want to remove the examples as they might lead people to believe that the reinforcement tokens only act as ground units.
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Wildhorn wrote:
What I just realized by reading the RRG, and correct me by pointing where it is written, is that while it states that units moved via another way than Advance Order must retreat to an area that an attacker came from, nowhere does it say that the attacker that moved via the Advance Order has to do the same.

Am I right? Which means attacker moved by the Advance Order could in fact retreat to area where they didn't come from?
After rereading that part, I suspect that the first bullet point is a typo. Otherwise what's the need for two redundant rules on what happens if you didn't use an Advance Order?
 
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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NGDBSS wrote:
Wildhorn wrote:
What I just realized by reading the RRG, and correct me by pointing where it is written, is that while it states that units moved via another way than Advance Order must retreat to an area that an attacker came from, nowhere does it say that the attacker that moved via the Advance Order has to do the same.

Am I right? Which means attacker moved by the Advance Order could in fact retreat to area where they didn't come from?
After rereading that part, I suspect that the first bullet point is a typo. Otherwise what's the need for two redundant rules on what happens if you didn't use an Advance Order?

The 2 bullets in the RRG are not about the same thing. One is for "move" and the other is for "place".
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Ben King
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Other than Wave Serpent I can't think of any ability that moves units without being an Advance Order, and the Learn to Play guide has the same rule applying regardless of what effect moved units in. So while that bullet may be intended for just such an exception, keeping it that specific is peculiar when the general rule is the same. Best to raise it to FFG as an oversight, I suppose.
 
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Alex Almond
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I can think of two others, and you need to keep in mind this ruleset is intended to mostly cover future expansions too.
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Colin Sham
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So I fired off an email to FFG and got some answers back. Here's what I asked:
Ridel wrote:
1. If you start a combat without an Advance Order, can your units retreat?
2. If you start a combat using an Advance Order and you gained some units through Battle Effects, can those new units retreat?

I ask because the rules reference for Attacker state:
» If the units did not move into the contested area via an Advance Order, they must move to an area that at least one unit moved from to start the combat.
» If the units were placed in the contested area by any effect other than an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.

For Question 1, the 2nd bullet seems most relevant, and the units are destroyed.
For Question 2, it seems like units that Move can retreat, but the new ones gained through battle effects are destroyed due to the 2nd bullet. Can you please clarify?

The response:
Samuel Bailey wrote:

The rules for retreats have a few errors in them, and they will be corrected in future printings. For now I would follow these guidelines:
The attacker retreats to an area that one of the attacking units moved from to start the battle.
If none of the units in the battle moved to the contested area as part of an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.


So to answer your questions
1. As long as your units attacked from another planet, they can retreat to one of the planets they attacked from (if there is a legal path).
2. If you gained a unit in a battle, it can retreat if at least 1 of your units moved to the contested area and there is a legal path back to that area. The reference guide is incorrect.

This is reasonably consistent with what we agree upon as a group, and I think it cleans up a lot of semantic issues.
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J Kaemmer
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Ridel wrote:
So I fired off an email to FFG and got some answers back. Here's what I asked:
[q="Ridel"]1. If you start a combat without an Advance Order, can your units retreat?
2. If you start a combat using an Advance Order and you gained some units through Battle Effects, can those new units retreat?

I ask because the rules reference for Attacker state:
» If the units did not move into the contested area via an Advance Order, they must move to an area that at least one unit moved from to start the combat.
» If the units were placed in the contested area by any effect other than an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.

For Question 1, the 2nd bullet seems most relevant, and the units are destroyed.
For Question 2, it seems like units that Move can retreat, but the new ones gained through battle effects are destroyed due to the 2nd bullet. Can you please clarify?

The response:
Samuel Bailey]
The rules for retreats have a few errors in them, and they will be corrected in future printings. For now I would follow these guidelines:
The attacker retreats to an area that one of the attacking units moved from to start the battle.
If none of the units in the battle moved to the contested area as part of an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.


So to answer your questions
1. As long as your units attacked from another planet, they can retreat to one of the planets they attacked from (if there is a legal path).
2. If you gained a unit in a battle, it can retreat if at least 1 of your units moved to the contested area and there is a legal path back to that area. The reference guide is incorrect.
[/q wrote:


This is reasonably consistent with what we agree upon as a group, and I think it cleans up a lot of semantic issues.

Feels good to be right

Even called the language error!
 
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Ridel wrote:
So I fired off an email to FFG and got some answers back. Here's what I asked:

Ridel wrote:
1. If you start a combat without an Advance Order, can your units retreat?
2. If you start a combat using an Advance Order and you gained some units through Battle Effects, can those new units retreat?

I ask because the rules reference for Attacker state:
» If the units did not move into the contested area via an Advance Order, they must move to an area that at least one unit moved from to start the combat.
» If the units were placed in the contested area by any effect other than an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.

For Question 1, the 2nd bullet seems most relevant, and the units are destroyed.
For Question 2, it seems like units that Move can retreat, but the new ones gained through battle effects are destroyed due to the 2nd bullet. Can you please clarify?

The response:
Samuel Bailey wrote:

The rules for retreats have a few errors in them, and they will be corrected in future printings. For now I would follow these guidelines:
The attacker retreats to an area that one of the attacking units moved from to start the battle.
If none of the units in the battle moved to the contested area as part of an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.


So to answer your questions
1. As long as your units attacked from another planet, they can retreat to one of the planets they attacked from (if there is a legal path).
2. If you gained a unit in a battle, it can retreat if at least 1 of your units moved to the contested area and there is a legal path back to that area. The reference guide is incorrect.

This is reasonably consistent with what we agree upon as a group, and I think it cleans up a lot of semantic issues.
His bolded guidelines contradict his direct answer to your question one.
You asked if you can retreat if you moved without an advance order and his direct answer is that you can retreat as long as you came from a planet (no mention of advance order), but his guidelines says you can only retreat if you moved via advance order.

Personally I'm going to go with "If at least one unit moved from a planet into the combat (be it through advance order or otherwise) all planets that units moved from are legal retreat destinations if a legal path to them exists. If all units where placed into combat then there isn't a legal retreat destination and units that have to retreat are destroyed."
 
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Sergio Perez
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iswearihaveajob wrote:
Ridel wrote:
So I fired off an email to FFG and got some answers back. Here's what I asked:
[q="Ridel"]1. If you start a combat without an Advance Order, can your units retreat?
2. If you start a combat using an Advance Order and you gained some units through Battle Effects, can those new units retreat?

I ask because the rules reference for Attacker state:
» If the units did not move into the contested area via an Advance Order, they must move to an area that at least one unit moved from to start the combat.
» If the units were placed in the contested area by any effect other than an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.

For Question 1, the 2nd bullet seems most relevant, and the units are destroyed.
For Question 2, it seems like units that Move can retreat, but the new ones gained through battle effects are destroyed due to the 2nd bullet. Can you please clarify?

The response:
Samuel Bailey]
The rules for retreats have a few errors in them, and they will be corrected in future printings. For now I would follow these guidelines:
The attacker retreats to an area that one of the attacking units moved from to start the battle.
If none of the units in the battle moved to the contested area as part of an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed.


So to answer your questions
1. As long as your units attacked from another planet, they can retreat to one of the planets they attacked from (if there is a legal path).
2. If you gained a unit in a battle, it can retreat if at least 1 of your units moved to the contested area and there is a legal path back to that area. The reference guide is incorrect.

This is reasonably consistent with what we agree upon as a group, and I think it cleans up a lot of semantic issues.[/q wrote:


Feels good to be right

Even called the language error!

I apologize for interrupting the self-congratulatory back-patting, but based upon the answer from FFG, isn't this part of your assessment wrong?

-"'Placed' attackers have no legal place to retreat to (because there is not area to call its origin) and are therefore destroyed."


The response from FFG seems to indicate that the rules reference guide is wrong in a different way than you are suggesting and that if at least one of the attackers moved into the contested area via an advance order, placed units may indeed retreat if there is a legal path to the point of origin of one of the units that moved via advance order.


Point of contention in the rules reference guide:
"If the units were placed in the contested area by any
effect other than an Advance Order, the units cannot
retreat and are destroyed."

The answer from FFG suggests that the RRG is wrong in the sense that it should read:
"If ALL OF the units were placed..."


Or it's possible I'm misunderstanding you altogether. Whatever the case, the rules as written for for attacker retreats are surprisingly convoluted. They definitely deserve a rewrite.



(*edit for clarity and to eliminate a possible misunderstanding of intent)

 
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Sergio Perez
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Also:

iswearihaveajob wrote:
-You must retreat to a friendly area if possible. If not possible you may retreat to an uncontrolled area BUT ONLY AS A DEFENDER.

Attackers are not required to move to a friendly area. They have to move to an area that meets the requirements for legal pathing, and the area must be one from which an attacking unit moved. It is possible that an attacker could remove all of his units from an area to participate in an attack via an advance order, leaving the area uncontrolled, then retreat back to the same area after losing the combat (again, assuming a legal path).


The Unofficial FAQ v0.2 currently states:
"Can I choose to retreat to an Unfriendly world?
Yes, but only defenders can do so.
A defender can only retreat if a path is available to a Friendly or
Uncontrolled area."


My opinion:
Firstly, there is no definition for "unfriendly world." An area can be friendly, enemy, uncontrolled or contested, but I believe I understand the spirit of the question. The answer is wrong in general though as it implies that only defenders can retreat to an other than friendly world. Nowhere in the rules does it state that the attacker is required to retreat to a friendly area. The requirements are as I outlined above: 1) legal path; 2) must be an area from which at least one unit in the combat moved.




From the FAQ:
"As an attacker, do I have to retreat back to where my units came from?
Yes. And attackers can only retreat if a path is available to a Friendly Area. They are destroyed if they can't retreat."


My opinion:
Again, part of this answer is wrong (friendly area part) based upon both the rules as written and the answer given from FFG; same reasoning as my answer above.




Lastly, from the FAQ:
"I attacked without using an Advance Order and lost, can my units retreat?"
No. They are destroyed as they cannot retreat to a legal ‘origin’ area."


My opinion:
This is where I feel like there is still some confusion. The answer from FFG contradicts itself as it states that as a guideline, "If none of the units in the battle moved to the contested area as part of an Advance Order, the units cannot retreat and are destroyed," but later states that if a combat is started without an Advance Order, "As long as your units attacked from another planet, they can retreat to one of the planets they attacked from (if there is a legal path)." I find the answer inconsistent, and I am again left to having to guess rules as intended.

For now, I'll play it as Niko stated with one exception, the bolded parts being my exception (again, guessing RAI based upon the inconsistent answer from FFG):
"If at least one unit moved from a planet into the combat (be it through advance order or otherwise) via an advance order, all planets that units moved from via the advance order are legal retreat destinations if a legal path to them exists. If all units where placed into combat then there isn't a legal retreat destination and units that have to retreat are destroyed."

*edit* The only reason I am differing from Niko's interpretation is because I'm putting more emphasis on the part of the answer from FFG designated "as a guideline." I think his interpretation is equally valid based upon the information given, and I wouldn't be surprised if the final ruling goes the way he suggested.
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That too is a fair interpretation Sergio.
Basically I chose to use what it says in the RRG over the reply from FFG since that easier to reference during a game (and because I don't care much for "clarifications" that aren't very clear).

I'm really not sure how often this will even come up in a game... The only way I can think of right now is if the marine player places a marine after orbital bombardment and then brings in more units via drop pod.
 
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