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Subject: Best Rebel Hero Combo's?? rss

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J-o Jankowski
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Curious what make up of 4 Rebels people have seen to be the most successful in Campaign? Which heroes have the best synergies together and thoughts on optimal combination of 4 heroes?
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Pasi Ojala
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My current experiences as both Imperial player and rebel:

1.Diala with Force Adept (and Battle Meditation) as soon as possible.
2.Gideon with Masterstroke (and Air of Command) - he does not need any item upgrades, which saves money.
3-4.Gaarkhan with Rampage.
3-4.Jyn (Quick Draw) with extra movement (Quick As a Whip).
3-4.Fenn (Havoc Shot) with Tactical Movement.
3-4.Mak with Disengage.

So, Diala and Gideon, then pick two of the remaining.

The most synergies develop from class cards and the bought items.
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Nick Vance
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I thought that Gideon's `Hammer & Anvil` skill where he can do an attack with another hero and for the second attack the defender looses their defense dice was amazing (I think it's 4XP though). Helps to have another good ranged hero with a good weapon here.

All of Garkhaan's stuff is pretty good but I think he has one called Brutal Cleave that let's him do 2 attacks to different targets in one action. That's pretty great, especially if you can mod his weapon with reach.

Jyn's quick draw is solid. IIRC there's a card that gives here an extra damage and lets her surge for stun when doing Quick Draw which I thought was quite good.

I liked Diala's Battle Mediation that let you rest and focus yourself or an adjacent figure. Pasi mentioned that above.
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Pasi Ojala
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nickv2002 wrote:
I liked Diala's Battle Mediation that let you rest and focus yourself or an adjacent figure. Pasi mentioned that above.
Not just adjacent, but any friendly figure, anywhere on the map!
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Chris Wilson
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My 4:
Female Han Solo . . . the vintage blaster and the DL-44 are super good early game you also get a free shot and probably some free movement depending on how you spec.
Old Dude . . . extra turns are amazing. Get Luke or Han early, go straight for masterstroke and the guy essentially wields a T3 weapon. He maximizes your money and maximizes your turns. I think he almost has to be included.
Soldier Guy . . . base: more free movement and recovers strain
Jedi . . . I'm not playing a Star Wars game without a Jedi.
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Jeremy N
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Diala is hands-down the best. She has so many abilites, but her best are: Force Throw, Force Adept, Way of the Saarlac. Toss in Defensive Stance and she's a powerhouse tank.


I'd probably put Fenn or Jyn at #2. Both are great offensive powerhouses.

Fenn's Blast 2 is a good mid-game purchase to punish squads. He has a number of good abilities, depending how you want to configure him. "Tactical Movement" and "Rebel Elite" are probably the first two to get, after that it's preference. Havoc shot is incredibly powerful primarily because, due to the wording of the card, you don't have to spend Strain to trigger it until after the dice are rolled. Also, it's not an action, so you can use it twice.

Jyn's Quick Draw is a disruptive ability. The major component in this game is the back-and-forth turn order and being able to disrupt that is tactically significant. It's prudent to get "Gunslinger" as early as possible, maybe only 2nd to "Smuggler's Luck" or "Quick as a Whip". Get her the DL-44 upgrade and later the Deathhammer, and a Tactical Display. The DL-44 surges + Gunslinger (Spend 1 strain to get surges) makes the Deathhammer effectively a Tier 3 weapon that you get pretty early.


In third is Gaarkhan and Mak. I don't fancy melee characters much, but Gaarkhan has some powerful abilities, he also has a lot of duds. One issue is there is only 1 Tier 3 melee weapon, and it's better for Diala to have it. Another thing I don't like about Gaarkhan is a lot of his abilities are Strain + Exhaust together, which is really detrimental to the melee character "smash repeatedly" if there's exhaust abilities you can't use repeatedly. His best ability is Charge, walking on water + attack are awesome. Good upgrades include Wookie Fortitude (give defense to Diala to get Defensive Stance Focus), Rampage, Unstoppable, and Brutal Cleave. His strain-using abilities only take away from using Charge. Gaarkhan's saving grace is his high HP, making him a tank.

Mak is a glass cannon, proper. Disengage is a great tricky ability, Jeswandi Training lets him start nearly every turn Focused (most consistent focus ability in the game). No Escape and Ambush let him obliterate Darth Vader in one turn with any Tier 3 weapon (and Tier 2 weapons with upgrades). Mak is designed to annihilate IMP Tank characters.



Gideon I don't consider a character, because he's purely tactical/support (which some people like). If you want to min-max, toss him in. He makes other characters twice as effective (you use their weapons without having to spend money), though their abilities don't refresh so you lose that. But Masterstroke is incredibly powerful.


For min-max:
-Gideon and Mak/Jyn
-Gaarkhan can use Wookie Loyalty to give +1 DEF to Diala to trigger Defensive Stance's Focus condition
-Fenn could intentionally Blast/Kill Gaarkhan to activate Unstoppable
-Diala synergizes well with Mak (Force Throw to trigger Disengage)
-Diala can Force Throw to set up better Blast opportunities for Fenn
-Diala can Force Throw to set up better cleave/Rampage opportunities for Gaarkhan

The common theme is Diala makes a lot of characters better, so don't play without Diala unless you're a masochist.
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Pasi Ojala
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(It's Force Throw. )
 
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Jeremy N
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a1bert wrote:
(It's Force Throw. )
In the Rules Reference Guide it's Push

But yes, my bad, I often get it mixed up.
 
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Ryan Stripling
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I still think Fenn's Tactical Movement is the best skill in the game, considering how useful it is and that it costs only one XP. But Diala is my favorite because, well, what's Star Wars without the force?
-ryanjamal
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Jeremy N
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ryanjamal wrote:
I still think Fenn's Tactical Movement is the best skill in the game, considering how useful it is and that it costs only one XP. But Diala is my favorite because, well, what's Star Wars without the force?
-ryanjamal
Tactical Movement or Force Adept are the best in the game (per resource cost, with others costing Strain or Exhaust or large amounts of XP).

Although Force Adept uses strain, it fixes one of the most detrimental aspects of the game: tying "mission progress" to luck (while luck is star wars-esque, it's generally regarded in BGG to be poor mechanics).


BGY has a 11% chance of 0 surges. In missions that are fought to the round, I've rolled the 11% before, and it really, really sucks.

If Force Adept only applied to Diala, it'd be far less useful. But since it applies to everyone, it's incredibly powerful.
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Florian Stertz
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1. Diala. Overpowered in my opinion.

Then there are many useful combinations.

If think Diala, Saska, Fenn and Gaarkhan/Biv should be potent.
 
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andy mcglothlin
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1. Diala, because there's no way she won't be useful. You can build her as a tank or support, or a combination of both. I think both of her 1 XP abilities are among the top four 1 XP abilities in the game, so she is highly adaptable and useful early on. Battle Meditation is great. Even starting out... The surge for Stun on her staff and Precise Strike are effective early game (although PS isn't as easy to use later with the 2 strain price, but it's still useful against Vader or AT-ST any time).

After that... I'm not sure it matters. Gideon and Mak play well together as Mak always seems to be around to receive the Command. No Escape and Jesswandi keep Mak holding that extra green die fairly often, meaning Diala can give the Battle Meditation Focus to other players.

Jyn can be pretty independent with her mobility. It can be expensive to keep her outfitted though. She almost needs armor and the fancy pistols (probably two of them) to use her at her best. Diala is great with her though because she can keep her Focused from anywhere on the map, whereas Gideon needs to be close or have LOS to support her with his abilities. I am playing one campaign in which she has the Sporting Blaster and DL-44 with Gunslinger... Wicked.

In the 007 play-by-forum game we have Diala, Gaarkhan, Mak and Jyn. I'm not sure it's the best combination, but it does cover all three attribute checks (and doubles on the technical). We have improved success rate quite a bit mid-late campaign through the Focus die. Diala has Battle Meditation and the Adrenal Implant. Mak has Jesswandi. Gaarkhan has Life Debt in addition to Rage.

The real-life campaign I am playing has Fenn, Jyn, Mak and Gaarkhan. I think this is probably the least effective combination and anything that isn't this is probably fine. They do a really good job of killing things though.
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Florian Stertz
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Does anyone else have expierence with a "non-Diala" group?

She definately feels like the strongest character in the game, which raises the question: Is she necessary to win against an experience imperial player?
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Michael
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The following is a list of things I would consider for building an optimized party. Note a lot of characters can fill more than one of the outline rolls depending on how you shop and spend xp.

0) Take Diala.

Force adept alone makes her a sure pick for me.

1) Choose 1 primary melee damage dealer.

This is for weapon/attachment distribution. It is my strong opinion that the shop deck, even with twin shadows, does not support two early-mid game melee characters. IMO the BD-1 and force pike are the only melee weapons worth buying and you can't insure temptation will come up. So two melee characters creates competition for scarce resources. Along those lines, I don't think the shop deck can support a ranged only party very well, so passing on melee creates other weapon problems.

Even if Diala is picked, this does not necessarily mean leave out Gaarkhan. If you take both Diala and Gaarkhan, I would spend Diala's first 4 xp on force adept, force throw, and battle meditation (not necessarily in that order) then save for WOTS or dancing weapon. In the early game Gaarkhan gets choice of attachments and the BD-1 while she plays a support role; Diala should be spending her 8th xp right around the time force pike starts showing up.

2) Choose at least 1 area damage dealer.

Defeating a storm trooper that has 2/3 damage with 8 damage of overkill is often a pretty inefficient use of an action. You want a fairly reliable way of spreading out damage and defeating multiple imperials with one action. I personally think Gaarkhan with the BD-1 and rampage is the best for this role. Fenn also does well with Rebel Elite. Diala with the BD-1 is also good.

3) Choose at least 1 single target heavy damage dealer.

Almost any character can fill this role. There's not much to elaborate on. You want an answer to some of the tougher enemies you will face.

4) Choose 1 support character.

This can be Diala, Gideon, or Saska. This is the character that makes your party strong while spending little to no credits on them for most of the game, which allows you to upgrade the rest of the squad faster. Gideon can command just fine without a weapon upgrade for the entire game. Diala can get force adept, force throw, and battle meditation and do all sorts of things to make the team better until she gets a good late game weapon. In the limited proxy testing I've done with Saska I haven't been impressed, so I currently don't recommend her for an optimal party - tho it's possible my opinion will change after more play testing. I also don't recommend going with two or more support characters; in my limited experience it puts too much pressure on the other characters.

5) Avoid too many weak early characters.

In my experience Diala has issues with being able to get into position and not constantly run out of strain in the early game, tho she can quickly grow out of this. Gideon is pretty underwhelming until you get masterstroke. Mak's starting weapon is pretty terrible for damage - he needs an upgrade and some xp spending to start having an impact. All of them eventually become strong, but you don't want to fall behind on wins (influence and credits) waiting for them to come around.



My personal favorite party is:

Diala, Gaarkhan, Fenn, Jyn
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Michael
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Triarier wrote:
Does anyone else have expierence with a "non-Diala" group?

She definately feels like the strongest character in the game, which raises the question: Is she necessary to win against an experience imperial player?
I'm in two PBFs that don't have Diala.

SWIA008 doesn't have her and are having a difficult time, but I think that has more to do with rebel mistakes and subversive tactics than a lack of Diala.

SWIA012 is off to a good start without her. We lost aftermath on purpose (didn't even play it, just took a loss) then won the next two and are looking good to make it three wins in a row - tho we've had easy side missions. We'll see how that one develops.

These are both against the same experienced imperial player.
 
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R5D4 .

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We are having great success with Diala, Gaarkhan, Gideon, and Mak.

We're a little more than halfway through. We lost Loose Cannon (Mak's side mission), because it was the first side mission and all those elites proved a little much... and A New Threat. All wins since then.

Everyone spent for a 2 XP class card and then saved for a 4 XP class card. (Diala does not have Force Throw or Force Adept).

Gaarkhan charges in with the BD-1, swings, Brutal Cleave if necessary. Diala runs in and Way of the Sarlaccs the rest. Anyone left and Mak hits them with the 280, No Escape. Then Gideon either commands Gaarkhan if necessary but most often Mak to attack again and again Masterstroke, how do you not take that?

The Imperial Player has a difficult time keeping things on the board, and removing strain with surges is important for our group. Homecoming is next up, if we get Luke the Imperial may be looking at finding another game.

Of note, Diala still has her Plasteel with Balanced Hilt, but Defensive Stance and Laminate Armor keeps her alive. she'll inherit the BD-1 if Wookie Guy gets the Force Pike. C'monnnn Temptation though!
 
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MadeOf RealPanthers
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I am loving this thread. But I'm also surprised to see how little love the new characters are getting.

Though I do agree some of the abilities seem to have similar effects or ideas to the Core set.

Verena and the new Jedi look to have some serious mobility. Though one could argue it's not as cheap as Fenn's free movement. And Biv's ability to reset all of his strain and then do CnP for 'free' (at the cost of 2 damage and a stun) looks huge to me. That seems to me like it would be a way to neutralise the OP-ness of Subversive Tactics. Especially if you coupled it with 'stay down'. Ouch.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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I think people have just not played the new heroes enough to have definite opinions about them. Also, using their abilities to the fullest is not straightforward.


Biv's Final Stand costs 4XP and only usable once per mission.

Fenn's Tactical Movement is better than Davith's Force Speed for being able to give the 2mp to another figure, but Force Speed is better in that it uses move 2 spaces instead of movement points.

Verena needs to be in the thick and thin of enemies, which can easily backfire.

(And just don't use Subversive Tactics.)
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Eric Phillips
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The new heroes aren't getting any love because the last time this thread was posted on was in August of 2015 when only Twin Shadows had been released. Verena and Davith weren't out yet.

The only non-Core heroes were Saska and Biv and I've seen one of the designers saying they were conservative with power budgets for those two heroes.

And I would agree with him. Biv is pretty much a crappy version of Gaarkhan and Saska has some fun looking things, but in the end she just doesn't provide the action efficiency that Gideon does.

I do think that Verena is strong, but Davith didn't seem too amazing in my BG playthrough. I'd rather just have Gaarkhan instead of Davith.

If I had to pick a best 4 man group using everything up through and including Wave 7, I think I'd go with Gaarkhan, Gideon, Mak, and Jyn.

I like this group because it gets you a max check of every type and also has a very clear purchase strategy and ability to make use of any item draw.

Although I do really like Diala, Gideon, Fenn, and Jyn. Although they have no max physical check, they have 3 medium physical checks and Diala's Force Adept (?) allows for the rerolls and gives her an extra blue dice. That helps out a lot, imo. Swapping out Jyn for Verena in that group is also a pretty beastly group imo.
 
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Michael
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sexpanther wrote:
I am loving this thread. But I'm also surprised to see how little love the new characters are getting.
All posts above your's are from 2015 and the most recent was 3 days before the release of Twin Shadows. There were no new characters yet.

This is an interesting topic to me. Incoming wall of text...

Quick summary of my opinion of the rebel heroes:

Diala - Probably still the best in the game. First three skills should be force adept, force throw, and battle meditation (order is debatable). From there so many options - my favorite is dancing weapon then defensive stance.

Gaarkhan - a mobile tank with high damage potential. What's not to love?

Gideon - in my opinion masterstroke first then mobile tactician, after that build to team needs. There is no more action efficient character in the game and he saves you a lot of money as he doesn't really need any items. Down side is weak early game - depending on party comp consider upgrading his weapon first and passing the upgrade to another hero once he gets masterstroke.

Fenn - Powerful and versitile. Definitely a contender for the first team.

Jyn - Very strong early game with excellect mobility. She's a fantastic objective runner. Down sides are her single target damage late game is middle of the read and her ideal item builds are a little spendy. She is a contender for being in the best party composition, but it depends on who else is in the party.

Mak - Weak early game that turns into a late game power house. His starting weapon is probably the worst in the game and needs to be upgraded asap.

Biv - Out classed by other heroes. Don't get me wrong, I like Biv and I think he's fun to play. However, I think other heroes can do what he does just a little bit better so for the purposes of this topic, I'd say no.

Saska - Interesting support character. I like her, but she would not make my A team because her strengths don't outclass the other support characters.

Loku - Another sniper, and a good one. I have a hard time deciding if I like him or Mak more. Both have very good damage potential and strong utility.

MDH-19 - This medic brings an interesting dynamic to the game. I've seen him in one full campaign and I would pass on him for the "best" team. With MDH-19 in a campaign the imperial player is very unlikely to ever win a mission by wounding all heroes. However, it's been my experience that the healthy heroes struggle to keep up with the demanding time requirements of too many missions because he does not bring enough damage/utility outside of healing. (Not saying he's bad, just not strong enough to make my top 4.)

Verena - Arguably the best rebel in the game, but very difficult and expensive to play. She can do it all: she's a tank, very action efficient, very high damage potential, and all around awesome. However, to get to that point she needs a high end ranged weapon, melee weapon, and some armor. Also, probably more so than any other hero, it's vital that she be activated at the right time and moved to exactly the right space every time to see her full potential.

Davith - Consider him a rogue. He has awesome damage potential and can be a pretty good tank too. In the early game I find he is too easy to wound. He does scale up, but other slow starting rebels scale up faster and better. Fun character I really enjoy playing, but does not make my best team.

Murne - I don't know enough to comment. She's the only one I haven't seen played much. I'm excited to give her a shot tho. At first glance I think she could rival Gideon for support quality and action efficiency, especially if you can get a strong ally reward early in your campaign.



So what does a "best" party need?

Ideally at least the following: 2 high single target damage dealers (can reliably do 6+ damage after defense to a strong target), 1 area damage dealer (someone who can reliably take out at least a full squad of storm troopers or similar with one activation, provided they are near eachother), 1 objective runner (someone with balanced attributes and good mobility), 2 tanks (good health and defensive bonuses), and 1 support character (makes the other party members stronger with little to no need for items of their own). That's 7 things, but thankfully the good rebels can fill two roles.

So what would my team be?

Diala
Vereena
Gideon
Fenn

Why?

By the late game Diala does it all: supports the team, high damage, and tank. Gideon is the king of action efficiency and will bring out the best in the rest of his team. Fenn brings balanced stats, tank, and both strong single target and area damage. Vereena also has balanced stats, tank, great damage, and action efficiency. 3 of the 4 heroes have the ability to reposition other teammates as part of their activation (force throw, tac movement, command).

Weaknesses:

No dedicated objective runner, but I feel there's enough flexibility with this group that it's not a problem.

Depending on how the upgrade phases go (and side missions), there may be too much late game competition for melee weapons, especially if you don't have Obi-Wan and/or the Grand Inquisitor expansion packs.

Honorable mentions:

Murne might be able to supplant Gideon. More personal experience needed.

Jyn, Mak, and Loku are all reasonable substitutes for Fenn. Gaarkhan over Vereena would ease the desired end game credit count.
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Eric Phillips
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After looking at my third group and your group again (Gideon, Verena, Diala, Fenn), I'm starting to see some flaws I overlooked earlier.

I think the group has a very poor early game and also too much AoE/Stormie killing. Gideon doesn't really shine until he gets Masterstroke, Verena doesn't start really laying down the damage until she can actually start one shotting stormies, and Fenn struggles early game to get off good Havoc Shots because the Imperial player doesn't have too many between round spawns due to low threat.

Diala also has a pretty weak early game and is a threat hog and until she gets battle mediation isn't much use because she rests so much. Her starting weapon is good for stunning enemies and not so good at dealing damage, but stunning imperial troops is usually less than useful because if you're in range to stun then the stormie is in range to shoot back.

The other issue I have with your analysis is Mak having a weak early game. I feel as though he has a pretty strong early game. Even with a subpar weapon, that Piere 2 is phenomenal. I believe he has the highest probability of killing a stormtrooper in one action of any character. Mind you it's not a perfect comparison because Gaarkhan can effectively get 3 actions off (Move plus two attacks) for 2 strain and have a higher chance of recovering some of that strain and Verena gets bonus actins on killing blows, but Mak definitely is up there in terms of early game power along with Gaarkhan and Jyn.

I also don't think Jyn falls off as hard as you let on. Gunslinger allows her to do some serious damage and Cheap Shot mitigates big targets and melee opponents and pseudo melees like T-Hunters significantly.


I also don't see the spendy part about her. An ideal build for her is DL-44 and then Sporting Blaster. You can put some mods on her if you like, but one should probably grab up almost all the mods anyways. Total cost is 1400 and you don't have to worry about a T2 gun like with other heroes who you'll need to upgrade and then sell back (or do the hand-me-down thing, but Gideon isn't going to shoot so it's not really that useful). Mak or Fenn cost you 1500+ if you upgrade to the E-11 then the A280 then a T3 weapon, so I'm not really buying the argument that she's anymore expensive than any other hero who's getting decked out.
 
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Jacob
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Don't even give Jyn Sporting Blaster. Deathhammer is cheaper and deals almost exactly the same damage when you have Gunslinger, DL-44, and a Tac display. Only 1400 for all of it (1350 if you sell your starter). You just have to get a little closer to make sure you hit, but you get it in the Tier II items instead of Tier III and can build it up piece by piece (and gradually get stronger).

I also think Mak has a good early game. You just have to be willing to use that Pierce 2, which is not a bad deal for 1 strain and a condition he can easily fulfill.
 
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MadeOf RealPanthers
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Thanks Pasi, Michael, and and Eric

Funnily enough, I independently came to the same sort of view that you did, Michael. I'm planning to run

Fenn
Verena
Gideon
Diala

Though my reasoning was neither as clear nor as detailed as yours!

I really wanted to get Murne in there, cos I can see how she'd be awesome. In particular, I think she's a reasonably good counter to Subversive Tactics (as is MHD-19) with all her strain recovery abilities. But Gideon is just so great mid- to late-game.

My Imp players has been kind enough to say he won't play subversive tactics

But Precision Training and Armored Onslaught are seriously scary, too.

I agree that Verena looks hard to play. But I'm not sure she's so weak un-upgraded. Her dagger is pretty good for killing early-game stormies. Fine, maybe you have to activate Fenn first to soften up 2-3 units, but then you can just chain Verena attacks together. And dem re-rolls from Diala. Maybe a snack-kick (which is a great skill imo if you need more damage output) to finish off.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.





 
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G Voss
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The best part of Verena in a party with Fenn and Diala is that the latter two can help her with getting her Close Quarters going. Both can move her adjacent to a target that's about to die. Moreover, Diala can throw an enemy with 1 remaining health to a square next to Verena: the damage is dealt after the push, so it dies adjacent to Verena.

I'm a bit surprised by the love for Jyn. My personal experience is that Stun is her biggest weakness, because it disables both her Quick Draw and her bonus movement. I wouldn't be eager to play her unless MHD-19 is around.

Murne I have played for the better part of one mission (yes mission; our Imperial appears to have quit), but I can see her become my favourite hero. Solidarity is definitely one of my favourite XP cards already. Throughout said mission, Solidarity has allowed her to not use a single rest or move action and she's one of two heroes that has moved the furthest ahead. Along the way, she was able to do many other things, such as picking up crates and handling objectives, as well as dealing damage.

But what's maybe even more interesting is how she seems to shape the game by her mere prescence. One, unique allies become so much cheaper. Two, if you're the Imperial: are you sure you want to include Trandoshan Hunters/Elite ISBs/... in your open groups if she can give them False Orders?
 
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MadeOf RealPanthers
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Thanks for all the great insights.

I can see many synergies between Verena, Fenn, and Diala. Gideon too. But in my thick headedness I'm struggling with timing, at lest for attacking an initial deployment.

Let's take an average initial deployment. I know they vary, but work with me. Typically you have maybe a stormie group and one or two single figures. An officer or a probe droid or both. Maybe worth ten threat total. Usually they're spread out a bit so blast is of little use, though cleave might be.


I typically think I'd quite like to take down the stormie group before IT activates. Would welcome challenge on this logic but I digress. Anyway. I'm struggling to see how in the early game, because of activation order, it's possible to produce anything great with these synergies. I can't 'set up' anything first activation because IP will just move the STs so they aren't adjacent to Verena. Ditto for setting up Fenn. My IP is far too smart to keep his ST in a blast able arrangement if he can avoid it.

Seems like combos involving her are better saved for after the ST activates. Then it's obvious. Diala force throw then Fennify them, or Verne can lay down the hurt. But that means I have to eat 3 attacks and possibly re rolls - or however many remain alive if I activate Fenn first or whatever.

What am I missing here?

My IP is running Precision Training, the swine, on the Hoth campaign so his snow troopers all get rerolls. I'm running Diala, Fenn Gideon, and Verena. Weve only just started and I have a DL 44 for V and an E11 for Fenn, for now.
 
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