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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: 1 Hull Left, Shields or Cloak? rss

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a g
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I play Klingons a lot, and this happens every so often. Down to 1 hull… what is better staying cloaked to get the +4 dodge dice or rising shields for that extra 2 or 3 hit points?

I am never sure what is best… so, what do you folks do?
 
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Typheron Joyzxqk
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Raise the shields, or more specifically Don't re-cloak.

One hull is easily removed by a bad roll and without battle stations or some other evade based re-roll even a 3 attack value ship has a good chance of picking you off.

At least with 3-4 hit point you may survive the next attack and be able to retaliate or force your opponent to waste another attack finishing the ship off.
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Yes have a look at the dice quantity the enemy is throwing at you. If against vulcans with 2-3 attack dice then cloak may be worth it but I would usually remain uncloaked after shooting and rely on the shields. If your captain is better than the enemy target lock, if not evade and hope that the 2-3 shields and an evade are enough to get you another shot.

If you were already cloaked from last turn and didn't fire for some reason then remaining cloaked and evading may be preferable as could a sensor echo to get our of arc of an opponent.

Fianlly remember your sqaudron mates. If your damaged ship echos out of arc but still can't fire you may suffer on other ships in your fleet as the enemy just concentrate on one of your fresher ships. If your enemy have 6+ attack dice and a target lock with a BS convert then it is probably preferrable that it shoots your 1 hull ship and overkills it rather than you taking 4 damage on a fresh vor'cha.
 
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Steve Smith
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Cloak so that you have a chance to Sensor Echo out of firing arcs, because at one hull, you can't take a hit and Klingon ships don't have enough shields to save them.
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Waspinator
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Stormtrooper721 wrote:
Cloak so that you have a chance to Sensor Echo out of firing arcs, because at one hull, you can't take a hit and Klingon ships don't have enough shields to save them.

Yeah, if the board layout would make that possible, go for that.
 
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Dr Vulcan
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General Rule: Once a Klingon ship starts taking real damage, decloak.

Exception 1: Do not decloak if you are planning to use sensor echo the next turn to avoid damage completely.

Exception 2: Do not decloak if you need to make use of cloaked abilities (chtang) and can get off that last higher output attack due to higher captain skill etc. and you want that attack to go through even if there is a chance to lose your ship after.

Exception 3: Do not decloak if it GREATLY increases the enemy's attack dice against you (such as a pratus is going to attack you and has a 5 cost plasma torpedo on it and you only have 1-2 shields). Here is a quick formula that you can use to decide to decloak in these situations:
[IF (new attack dice increase * .75 > new shield count) Then decloak Else stay cloaked]
So, with the partus example, it would be: 3*.75 = 2.25 > 2, so if you only had 1-2 shields then stay cloaked, but if you had 3 shields then decloak.
Its not a perfect formula, but it is good to start with and is often 'good enough'. When used with the above #1 and #2 it is very often the right choice in the end and matches the conclusion to be had even if you do a bunch of fancy math

------------------------------------------------------------------

Real Answer for #3: Bonus formula (This is the real answer that I use, just solve for this):
A: [(Enemy ship's attack dice # when you are not cloaked) * (enemies attack dice quality % to hit when you are cloaked)] - [(your defensive dice count) * (your defensive dice quality % to roll evade)] - [(your tokens and defensive abilities had while not being cloaked such as evade tokens)] - - [(your gained shield value)] = [# damage to your ship's hull]

vs

B: [(Enemy ship's attack dice # when you are cloaked) * (enemies attack dice quality % to hit when you are cloaked)] - [(your defensive dice count) * (your defensive dice quality % to roll evade)] - [(your tokens and defensive abilities had while being cloaked such as evade tokens)] = [# damage to your ship's hull]

Then look at the greater final [# damage to your ship's hull] and see which is better.

-------------------------------------------

Example for #3 Bonus formula: An empty romulan generic valdore is range 2 from your empty generic klingon BOP class:
1) You can not sensor echo out of range
2) You can not destroy them before they attack (ie they are full health)
3) You have 1 hull left and 2 shields, what do you do? You are willing to use evade action if needed:
Using the above bonus formula:

A: Decloak: [(4) * (.75 due to potential TL)] - [(1) * (1/3)] - [(1 from evade token)] VS [2 gained shields] => [~1.7 damage on average to you which is less then you ship's gained shields of 2] => 1/3rd damage to your last shield.
So roughly 1/3rd of the time you will have 1 shield left and 2/3rds of the time you will have no shields left, however you are likely to survive unless they roll very well.

B: Stay Cloaked: [(4) * (0.5)] - [(5) * (1/3)] - [(1)] = [-2/3 damage to your ship's hull, meaning ~1/3rd damage to your ships hull]
So there is roughly a 1 in 3 chance that you will be destroyed and a 2/3rd chance that you will take no damage and survive.

Therefore, in this case de-cloaking is the right answer, as you will likely still have your hull remaining and you may even have a shield left, unless they roll perfectly. Where as if you stay cloaked you will have a 1/3rd chance of not surviving.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The above formula is something that I use for 'in my head' calculations during the game, this DOES NOT take into consideration the effects of rolling very well or very poorly and not take into account the effects of critical hits themselves. It also can be confusing for interpreting negative numbers until you are used to the formula. It does however give you a quick general idea that will give you the rough statistics of the effect. Due to this, I will generally factor in a 0.1 to 0.5 additional damage weight depending on the exact situation for these missing parts of the equation.

If you want the real formula I can give you that but I find it takes too long to solve in my head for each ship combat.

If the bonus formula is a bit much ,you can just use the generic estimation formula that I provided in #3, and as I noted when used with #1 and #2 and the general rule, it often tells you the same thing anyway.
----------------
Enjoy!
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Sodoff Baldrick
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Stormtrooper721 wrote:
Cloak so that you have a chance to Sensor Echo out of firing arcs, because at one hull, you can't take a hit and Klingon ships don't have enough shields to save them.


1 hull left, DO NOT CLOAK. Unless Martok is nearby it is unlikely he will have 2 actions in the same round. Also at close range Sensor Echo isn't going to do much to escape the plethora of 360 attacks.

Steve, have you watched your videos? That is why the Borg are always blowing you apart. Just because you can cloak doesn't mean you should. Always cloaking can drain your actions and hurt your own dice quality. There are times where it helps, but there are plenty of times to go shields up an go head on for the Empire.

Klingons have some of the best shield repairs in the game and they are hardly used by Klingon players. Konmel is great especially when combined with Klingon Fleet captain, plus he comes in the starter. Secondary Shield Emitter is good and with Gowron around the -1 attack is negligible, and its cheap.
 
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David Griffin
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batron352 wrote:
I play Klingons a lot, and this happens every so often. Down to 1 hull… what is better staying cloaked to get the +4 dodge dice or rising shields for that extra 2 or 3 hit points?

I am never sure what is best… so, what do you folks do?


I'd say de-cloak. It's what Martok does in the show right? Cloaking can be anything from near invincible to pointless depending on the number and quality of the attack dice arrayed against you. As a Klingon, you are action starved but even if you are permacloaked, you can only take about 4 attack dice with decent but not great quality before you're in serious danger. With GREAT quality you're in some trouble. With 5 attack dice you should make sure your life insurance is paid up.

You need some way to increase defense dice quality and the Klingons don't have it natively. Defense Condition One will do it for a turn but the card is expensive and hard to find. Mendak might do it off faction. Ditto with Hood Riker.

I feel like for Klingons, you need to throw a lot of dice with the best quality you can (the best alpha strike you can) and then decloak and use your actions for something that helps more like target lock.
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Sodoff Baldrick
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Tritium Intermix is a decent card that you don't see Klingon players use. Combine that with Bu'Kah and you can bring a ship back from the brink.
 
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Dr Vulcan
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Just don't underestimate sensor echo, I find that Klingons can be a lot more successful if you make good use of sensor echo, even mid or late game as you can get those 'free' attacks off by being out of range / arc and I will take a free low quality 5 dice attack over a traded high quality 5 dice attack any day.
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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Sensor Echo is great, but when you are down to 1 hull it's a move you have to know that will work. With Synon yeah it may work , but if the enemy is right on top of you with a 360 a standard Echo probably won't save you. It is very situational. On a most named Klingon ships you have 3 shields, so Shields up, take an evade and you suddenly have 5 health with 1 die as opposed to 1 health and 5 dice.
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Daniel Shaharuddin
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I still wish chang had a "to be or not to be"elite talent-when being attack to your hull you may discard this card and roll 1 evade die. On and evade cancel the attack.
 
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Dr Vulcan
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daniels072000 wrote:
I still wish chang had a "to be or not to be"elite talent-when being attack to your hull you may discard this card and roll 1 evade die. On and evade cancel the attack.


Or: Elite Talent: 6 points, Chang only: You must constantly (non stop) quote shakesphere, while doing so, roll + 2 defense dice at any time you roll defense dice. If you ever stop quoting shakesphere lines, for any reason, discard this upgrade.
 
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Robert Chest
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I put together a quick spreadsheet for different actions you could take against different numbers of attack dice that would be thrown. I assumed attack dice would be unmodified to provide a sort of baseline. Your best actions in order appear to be:

1) Put up 3 shields and take an evade action (statistically survives a 7 die attack)

2) Put up 3 shields (survives against 6 dice)

3) If already cloaked, take an evade action (survives against 5 dice)

4) Put up 2 shields, i.e. playing a generic (survives against 4 dice)

5) Take a cloak action (survives against 3 dice)

The pattern holds true when facing attack dice that are modified, but 3 shields and an evade will only statistically survive a 5 dice attack, etc.

2 Caveats to go along with this though:

First, defense dice will inevitably fail you, and what you statistically should roll is not a guarantee. This is an argument against cloaking.

Second, when several enemy ships are going to shoot at you before you get a chance to shoot back, remember that cloaking and rolling defense dice could potentially get you by several relatively small attacks from your opponent, while shields need only to be hit once and they are gone. This is an argument for cloaking.

EDIT: One further point. If your opponent does not have access to the battlestations action and does not have a target lock on you, and you are already cloaked, staying cloaked should be approximately as effective against a single attack as raising shields, and could be much better against multiple attacks. I would stay cloaked in that situation even with just 1 hull.
 
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