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Among the Stars: Revival» Forums » General

Subject: Fooled again! rss

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Wim van Gruisen
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I won't participate in Kickstarter anymore. At least not with Artipia games.

I joined the campaign for ATS: Revival. As I have done for the other ATS games and expansions. Thought that $40 was a bit much, but the completist in me made me do it anyway.

And today, before the game has even hit the market, I see it being offered for $31,47. By Stronghold Games, Artipia's partner in distributing this game. That is more than 20 percent lower. I find that a lot. I understand that prices can fall after a game hits the market, but have a bit of a problem when I see that happening already a month before I can even have the game in my hands.

I paid $8,53 more for what exactly? Not for the stretch goals - people who now pre-order the game at Stronghold get it as well. Not for the privilege of getting the game in my hands sooner either - we just got a mail that we will get the game delivered in September. That is not too far away from Spiel anymore, where we presumedly can pick up the game for the Stronghold price from the Stronghold booth. For the warm feeling of subsidising the game, so that players who pay almost $10 less, can get all these extras?

Sorry, but that's not for me. I'd rather have the $8,50 in my pocket than that warm feeling. Or if I need to give to charity, that $8,50 is better spent on donations to a homeless project than to fellow players' discounts.

So next time I won't be participating in Artipia's projects anymore. Next project I'll just lay back and wait until the game is actually published, so that I can enjoy the discount.


Edit: I was partially wrong here. My excuses. Stronghold's game doesn't include the stretch goals.
 
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Carl Bussema
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To be fair, Stronghold is offering it for that price, but requires $8.95 shipping for a US address, and only ships to US/Canada/Mexico. So call it $40.42 for a US address.

That is lower than Artipia's price of $45 shipped, however, and is extra irritating since Artipia's shipping is downright awful.

I haven't seen the documentation that Stronghold orders are getting the stretch goals, which would make a big difference in the value. If the Stronghold version really is 100% identical for $4.58 less, that would be very poor form; especially after letting Stronghold sell copies at GenCon.
 
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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Whymme wrote:

I paid $8,53 more for what exactly? Not for the stretch goals - people who now pre-order the game at Stronghold get it as well.


No they are not. I'm sorry but this is 454% wrong. Where did you hear that?
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David Jones
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While this was never an official post from Artipia/Stronghold, it was hypothesized a long time ago that the Stronghold version would probably be cheaper than the kickstart. So some of us who were paying attention knew this was a risk.

I have to admit that the frustrating part is that I did ask point blank in another thread if the Stronghold version would include the kick bonuses, but there was never an answer on this. Stronghold has repeatedly said that the Artipia and Stronghold versions of the game would be identical, but it was never clear if the kickstart goals are part of the standard retail box contents or an "extra."
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Konstantinos Kokkinis
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The stretch rewards from our Revival KS campaign are for our backers ONLY.

1) There will be a few pieces of the cards remaining which will be avaiable from our online store for an additional cost. Then this material will not be available again before 2016.

2) The plastic pieces (ships, reactors, scoring tokens) will also be available for purchase from our online store.

Thank you.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Yeah, stronghold doesn't have stretch content.

That cardstock flop is unfortunate, though. I'm kind of puzzled how this happened? Don't publishers ask for samples first?
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Bryan K
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I've supported two of three Among the Stars Kickstarters. I did not do this last one. Kind of wished I would have. But, each time it seems to happen the same way. Stronghold does not get the stretch goals and sells the base game a little cheaper. As a backer, I was glad to support Artipia games, and get it a bit earlier with some sweet stretch goals. I still love the metal coins and tuck boxes I got last campaign. I think Artipia does good stuff and each campaign has gotten a little better. Project Elite went way better than New Dawn. Good job guys.
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Carl Bussema
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Yeah, I assume that "Year of Peace" (or "Year One Promos" as I sometimes joke) will include the cards that were stretch goals from the base Reprint/2nd Edition KS and the Revival KS. Unclear what plastic components from this campaign will be in that set, but let's play devil's advocate and say all of them. We'll assume $35 MSRP for YOP based on the MSRP of ETA. We know Revival is $45 MSRP.

Assume you own the base set from before the 2nd edition kickstarter and want Revival and all the stretch goals from both campaigns. We'll also assume a US address and no tax.

Option 1: Back KS for 2E at $10. Back Revival for $40 + $5 shipping. Total: $55. Bonus: you get the stretch goals from the 2E reprint a long time ahead of everyone waiting for YOP retail.

Option 2: Pre-order from Stronghold at 30% off MSRP. That's $31.50 for Revival and (probably) $24.50 for YOP. Pay $9 shipping both times. Total: $74 (maybe less if you get combined shipping ordering other games, or if you can pre-order revival but have it held until YOP is out, but even if you got FREE shipping, your total is $55)

Option 3: Wait for CoolStuff (etc) to have them available, add them to some other order to qualify for free shipping. CSI currently has discounts of 31-32% on ATS titles. We'll say 32% to be generous. Total: $54.40. Downside: either you're placing 2 large orders at different times to clear free shipping or you're waiting until YOP is out to have Revival. Whether "I have to order more games" is really a downside... well, that's between you and your budget.

Option 4 of ordering from Atripia comes to roughly $100 USD but depends on the exchange rate to Euros and what fees you pay for currency conversion. Let's just call that a bad option.

So it seems to me that $54-$55 is the lowest you're going to get all that for, and doing it via KS would get you the items (probably) (close to) faster than (most) other options.
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Wim van Gruisen
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3pod wrote:
Whymme wrote:

I paid $8,53 more for what exactly? Not for the stretch goals - people who now pre-order the game at Stronghold get it as well.


No they are not. I'm sorry but this is 454% wrong. Where did you hear that?

It seems that I misread the Stronghold page. When I saw it first, I got the impression that the stretch goals were included. My excuses - I edited the OP.
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Peter Schott
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I seriously considered Artipia vs. Stronghold when it came to backing, but after some clarification, it seemed pretty much set that the release from Artipia would include stretch goals. The Stronghold release would not. Factor in shipping as well and that brings Stronghold's price close to $40. So - for the relatively smaller difference, I get the stretch goals from the campaign right away as opposed to whenever the next packaged set of stretch goals is published and I don't have to pay to have those shipped.

The card stock is unfortunate, but as explained in the KS update - this was a manufacturer error. Artipia had approved the previously used card stock, not the linen finish. (Personally, I wouldn't mind having both - one to keep as a 2-player game, the other to mix into the larger game. Seems a shame to waste all of those cards. )

TLDR - The price difference was a known factor, but you are getting the stretch goals for not much difference in price.
 
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Keith Hooks
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Coolstuff has the pre-order of Revival up for $31.49. If you make the free shipping threshold, that's the cheapest option.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Geekly wrote:
Coolstuff has the pre-order of Revival up for $31.49. If you make the free shipping threshold, that's the cheapest option.


Only if you don't care about the stretch goals/backer rewards that were in the KS campaign. Else see earlier math.
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Peter Schott
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InfoCynic wrote:
Geekly wrote:
Coolstuff has the pre-order of Revival up for $31.49. If you make the free shipping threshold, that's the cheapest option.


Only if you don't care about the stretch goals/backer rewards that were in the KS campaign. Else see earlier math.

and "if" you make the free shipping threshold, which is something I rarely would hit as I don't generally queue up orders of $100+ at a time. I like being married and living. I still think that we didn't get a bad deal backing the game, getting the KS extras, and not paying all too much more than what's out there. Only thing I'm (very slightly) bummed about is waiting still longer due to the card mishap.
 
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David Jones
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paschott wrote:
"if" you make the free shipping threshold, which is something I rarely would hit as I don't generally queue up orders of $100+ at a time. I like being married and living.


Which is why you get all of your friends in your gaming group to buy games at the same time as you.
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Mark O'Reilly
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The truth is no one can please everyone all of the time and often the person complaining has a genuine feeling of being upset/disappointed for some reason. It's human nature.
In this instance it seems the game can be purchased cheaper from Stronghold but it does not have the stretch goals Artipia give you.
I guess the U.S market is very large and this may be a factor on price, a bit like online stores can cut costs because they shift large quantities.

I love supporting good publishers and Artipia are in that category .

Artipia make really good fun games that are quality and this is one of the reasons I always try and back them if I like the look of a game they are producing.
Also they are a very friendly company with great customer service.
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Connor Cranston
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I really hope it will be possible to include both sets of cards with Revival (linen cards and 'corrected' cards)....


Pleeeaassse Artipia? Pretty please with a cherry on top? meeple
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Stephen Buonocore
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Note that the price on the Stronghold Games website is our PREORDER price, which is always 30% under MSRP, and we then guarantee that the game will be shipped to you before our retail Street Date for our game units.

We place items on preorder once they are ready to be ocean shipped to our warehouse, as both ATS: Revival and ATS: Miniatures Pack is at this time (they're on the ocean!).

It is up to the consumer on how they want to purchase a game, and we support ALL FORMS of your purchase, including:

1. Buy from Artipia during the KS (this supports our friends at Artipia, which is fine, of course).

2. Buy from Stronghold Games directly during the preorder period. This is going on right now, and as stated, it is 30% off MSRP with a guarantee that it will ship to you before anyone else in our distribution chain (Distributors, Retailers, other customers).

3. Buy from your FLGS/FOLGO after Street Date. This is currently slated for mid/late-September.

The choice is always yours. We are very transparent in this.
The fact is that with the KS campaign that Artipia runs there is that additional choice that is not usually there with a game that we bring out alone.

The choice, dear consuming gamer friends, is always yours. And we support your decision fully.

Thanks,
Stephen M. Buonocore
Stronghold Games LLC
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