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Subject: How To Sea Lion rss

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Enrico Osvaldi
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Hi! I just started a new game as the Axis and i was wondering if it was possible to SL and how to..any suggestions?
My strategy is to capture gibraltar with the Regia Marina and then align Spain ,after that i'll try to get at least 4 germans ashore (HQ included) with the support of the Kriegsmarine(i'll try to buy even the CVs),the Regia Marina ,and possibly Vichy's Fleet.
I'm playing WIFFE with AsA.
Also are the italian CVs a worthy shopping??
Thanks alot!
 
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Bruce Jurin
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Enrico,

Welcome to WiFFE! It is great to see people interested in this kind of
topic.

Introduction


It is important to understand that the game makes Sea Lion easier than (at least most people think) it was in RL, more in line with the thinking was in 1940. And yes, you can pull it off – to me, that is the idea of a game like WiFFE, it allows these kinds of neat games and choices!

Furthermore, even if you are a ‘kill USSR’ guy with Germany, you MUST learn how to do an opportunistic invasion of England- that is, if the CW player leaves few or no land units in the blessed island, sticks his chin out and says ‘I dare you to invade’, make sure you can hit that chin. I’ve succeeded more than I’ve lost Sea Lions, but many have come because the CW player is too cavalier about it.

Before getting into the details, unfortunately the answer as many times in WiFFE depends on what options you play. For instance, if you play without the AMPHIB rule, it is easy to pull off, way too easy. Divisions are a big plus for Germany. O-chits and emergency HQ support are almost necessary, defensive shore bombardment makes it harder, etc. Below, I’m going to assume that you are playing Deluxe with the options most people use (including emergency HQ support, O-chits, divisions, SCS invasions, supply units, and AMPH’s, most of the modules.) I’m assuming you are not using Leaders in Flames (I know you said you are only using AsA, this is just for completeness). Finally, if you use O-points instead of O-chits, it is again easier. A critical issue is if you are playing with limited overseas supply – here I am assuming you are, and if you can do it with LOS, you can obviously do it without LOS.

We have 2 main Sea Lion routes. The main one is the one that you outlined, the capture of Gibraltar, letting the Italian fleet into the Atlantic, trying to land in 1941 if possible; the second is the direct invasion after the Fall of France (or theoretically before, but this is unlikely), trying to land in 1940.

These are my experiences; other Wiffers will be different, so expect some disagreement.

Direct Invasion From France


The big advantage of this method is obviously speed; if you take out France at the historical time (and you still hold an o-chit!) you can pull of Sea Lion in 1940. Needless to say, just like RL, the key here is that you must win the Battle of Britain. If you don’t have pretty much complete fighter superiority, Sea Lion is an exercise in becoming PoW’s.

The second big factor here is what you buy – if you start buying all of the obvious units (amphs especially) you are telegraphing your strategy; or if you build ahead the PARA’s, a similar result. These obviously help the invasion a lot, but use up BP’s that you may want for defeating France, which is no walkover in WiFFE.

So if we don’t build ahead, we will have something like the German Para and the Italian Mar for any time in 1940; you can build the German Mar without building ahead in J/F 40 and the Italian Para, so by around S/O 1940 you have one Amphib, 2 Trs, a bunch of SCS for divisions, 2 Mar’s, and 2 Para’s, 5 units can be landed attacking at full strength plus divisions at half. This is not an inconsiderable force, and if you build ahead, more or earlier. For air units, you want all of them! You need bombers for air support (both offensive and defensive), and especially ATR’s, which are used both for Paratrooping and for reorganization. (And FIGHTERS!!)

We can see that this force can certainly take a few non-occupied hexes in England without too much trouble. You want to start by taking a port – and here, the key is your o-chit. You ought to be able to blast away a defended port in good weather with these forces taking any loss from a division. With an o-chit and these other forces, you should be able to grab 2 hexes. It is actually hard to stop the invasion for the CW. Remember that sea hexes do NOT block range for an HQ to play an offensive chit.

The main strategy for the CW is to try to keep the invaders bottled in, so that Germany cannot land more troops without violating stacking. The key for Germany is getting an HQ into the hex adjacent to the invasion port (which obviously is usually Dover). You can debark units onto an HQ coastal hex, and the HQ is there for emergency HQ support if something goes wrong temporarily. (Don’t let the CW groundstrike it!!)

If you get say Dover, 2 adjacent hexes, 2 HQ’s, you can land 3 units a turn. As you go forward, and with air superiority, you should be able to inch forward, with air superiority, it will be hard for the CW to match production. (And you get to laugh when he builds land units and they are come in India and Australia!).

Your main army, besides the HQ’s that are used for o-chits and reorg, is in the meantime going through Spain to get to Gibraltar. This strategy isn’t being abandoned, but is pinning down the CW and of course if it works puts on the finishing blow if Gibraltar is taken before the US saves the day.

Your ATR’s are critical for reorganization, especially if things go wrong. When they are used for paradropping, reorg with your HQ and use them for reorging farther away units in England. You want them to reorg the main invaders taking Dover (usually) right away if forced to flip on invasion.

Unfortunately, I’ve probably made it sound easier than it is. And indeed, the problem actually isn’t getting the foothold, or even the strength, into England – the hard part is winning the game afterwards.
The Soviets are going to do everything they can to break the pact and try to come crashing in; and the Americans are going to get into the war early. Germany will find itself trying to keep the Soviet border garrison up while trying to fight in Spain and England, and this can get very hard, while lots of Green is on the American mini-map.

The worst part, however, is the inevitable time the CW gets control of the North Sea. If you get bad weather and they can surface attack you, or get a lot of surprise points, you can find yourself having to retreat the fleet and then all of your units are out of supply. This is even more dangerous if you have advanced and are out of ME-109 range from your air units in France in good weather. The only way to survive this is to have a supply unit or use emergency HQ supply, but if you get a bad winter, you can be in very bad shape.

The CW will get (damage, sink) your amph sooner or later, so once the invasion starts, or earlier, build back-ups. However, you must expand quickly to get HQ ‘s on the coast and ports to be able to land reinforcements the amphs, mar’s, and paras only go so far.

So this is where we have to discuss opportunistic invasions. If the CW is sending its land troops out to Egypt, reinforcing Pacific possessions that they can, India, Malaya, etc. and there are 2 Mil one Mot in England, you should be ready to punish him with an invasion, and German players should learn the technique. If the CW has an HQ, an Arm and a Mech, a Mot, an Inf and 2 MIL/GAR and lots of planes, you may find yourself landing but bottled up and not able to move, while you neglected the Soviet front and brought the Americans in early and used up an o-chit.

Tactical tricks – There are a few ‘tricks’ to remember. Even more than usually, as Germany, try to get the double move – invade on the last impulse if possible and then try to go first to break-out.

Make sure you have two fleets and spare convoy points. If your flipped TRS and AMPH in the sea box are attacked and you can’t get an air combat or you think the CW can get bombers through, you will likely have to abort. Your units in England are now out of supply (LOS). If the CW took a naval you can now sit out of supply and establish the supply line on your impulse. (If the CW gets a double move here, it is real bad). As stated above, you need to use emergency HQ support, or better yet, once established, use supply units to establish primary supply.

The ‘trick’ here is if the CW say attacks your flipped amph stack in the North Sea, you can abort to port – and surprise – in your impulse you reorg the AMPH and or transports, and can potentially use them again! This allows the same amph to do more than one invasion a turn. This works especially if you used a supply unit to get primary supply or units in England. This can be a powerful tactic for a long turn like J/A. It is best if the CW took a naval impulse and cannot really take advantage of knocking you out of supply before you can reestablish it.

The 1941/1942 invasion after taking Gibraltar


We have some similarities, some differences. At this point, there are fewer opportunistic invasions; but always be ready to pull one off if the CW player commits too much to Gibraltar.

For this invasion, we have a much different ‘feel’. Instead of just getting a landing and trying to expand, at this point we have power on power. Expect Britain to be armed to the teeth. The good news now is that you have a powerful Italian fleet with 3 AMPH’s and a lot of transports (assuming you are playing with SiF. If not, you will have fewer); you can invade with 5 units/turn (SiF) and land a bunch more with transports, besides the paras, etc. Here you air out the para’s and debark the marines, stack other units in their place, and have them ready to invade/paradrop again. Attacks now are supported by the landed units. You can have close to 10 corps sized units capable of landing/invading per turn. With an o-chit you can have spectacular results.

Without SiF, and using AMPH's, this invasion is harder but I think the same ideas apply.

Once again, the CW cannot withstand this kind of pressure indefinitely or even for very long. However, you still have to move fast.
Everything about the 40 invasion is now magnified – more pressure from the Soviets and the Americans. One advantage of first capturing Gibraltar is that, based on the strategic situation, you don’t have to invade England. Here the opposite applies. If the CW huddles and turns England into fortress Albion, you can take out the Med, and still attack the USSR in 1942.

With this type of invasion being more based on ‘power’, there are IMO fewer tricks. I would build a supply unit at every chance and have them ready to go to England. The CW has one major trick – as Germany, BEWARE THE CW USING A NAVAL O-CHIT! If you doing things well, you hope he doesn’t have 15 bps to spare on one, but oh my, once he rerolls 4 times and gets his 8 battleships and 10 cruisers to attack your fleet with 10 surprise points, you can find yourself in bad shape. And to reinforce what I said before, if Germany loses the Battle of Britain or ever loses fighter superiority, it is time to evacuate!

For both types of invasion, strategic considerations are more important than BP counting. Germany must establish initiative, get its objectives, and move fast. O-chits and O-points are especially valuable.

My group gets Sea Lions about 20% of the time. They sometimes work, they sometimes don’t, but they are FUN especially if you are just used to 41 Barbarossas. You get a much different game, with tremendous interaction between land, air, and sea units. It is also a different 'feel' from the Pacific war, since the land war is much more prominent. As with everything in WIFFE, be ready for an opportunistic invasion whenever you are strong.

One odd result is that the biggest winner of Sea Lions is often – Japan! Japan is pretty weak in a lot of games, but we often see the US emphasizing protecting England in 42 and not concentrating on the Pacific after a Sea Lion, and the Soviet Union is trying to crowd the Polish border. So if your Japanese ally is recommending it, be wary!


In summary, these are some of the best games I’ve ever played. It is important to understand exactly what it takes to pull off a Sea Lion and be ready to use it, feint etc. as an important tool for winning the game.
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Bruce Jurin
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I realize I didn't address two specific points you asked - the Vichy fleet and the Italian CV's.

My opinion is that you shouldn't be able to take Gibraltar from the CW with Vichy in place. The only feasible ways to take it are through Spain, or slogging through North Africa to Morocco and try to invade with air units able to knock Gibraltar out of supply and flip them.

But in either case, you can't do this with Vichy. Realistically you won't be able to get to Spain without collapsing Vichy (or having France Surrender) in which case the fleet goes Free French. If you try to go through Africa, usually M/A/T will go Vichy, and you can't go in unless they are active. Even if North Africa goes Free French, trying this is risky since the key to winning as Germany here is speed (especially hard if you use City based volunteers, the French get a few here). You want to get to Gibraltar ASAP so this means either conquering France or collapsing Vichy.

As far as the Italian Carriers go, I'm not a buyer in deluxe. If you are using Planes in Flames, the land based air is usually more useful since the fighting is localized (North sea, England, etc.) Carriers beat the LBA when flexibility and mobility are needed. So if you want a fleet to raid the far flung CW possession, the CV's may be useful. Unfortunately, the Italian ships aren't built for this, they have terrible range, 3 at most. So I think there are just better buys.

If however you are just using Classic and ASA, then yes, you often build out a large part if not most of your force pool and the Italian carriers are better in classic than if you use their rather poor carrier planes in deluxe.
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Enrico Osvaldi
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wow,you gave me a lot of informations,man! Thanks alot!
By the way we're not using the amph rules and supply units..
Also do you think a succesful SL means "conquering the UK" or "making the western war start in the UK rather than France"?
What if i use the italian fleet to attract him elswhere (making believe i'm trying to conquer suez,malta,or gibraltar)and then "surprise "him with a german SL?
There is any possibility of the english player rushing his fleet from the mediterran to save his country and almost "abandoning" his forces in the med?
Again thanks a lot! Your answer was(and will be) very helpful!
Cheers Enrico!
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Bruce Jurin
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Hi Enrico!

I'm glad you liked the write-up!

I have to admit I haven't played without AMPH's in a while so the following is largely speculation.

If you are playing Classic with AsA and not Amph's, and there are two experienced players, the CW player is going to say 'I'm expecting a Sea Lion' at every moment. Germany alone can land 3 units along with para's, Mar's, and divisions, and reinforce. So I suspect that the importance of breaking out and getting landing zones is much less, and it is more about the direct fighting.

Unfortunately, every optional rule/kit used changes the analysis. If you play without Planes in Flames I think it will be a little harder for Germany, as Sea Lion involves really spending on those planes. Without SiF you have fewer weak ships to absorb losses if you get into a surface combat. So you probably have more of a get on shore and fight mentality, but have less of an advantage without all of those planes.

If you are using LOS without SiF, it is hard to stay in supply as you don't have the 1 CP sacrificial units if you need them. If you play without LoS staying in supply is MUCH easier, you don't need supply units any more, and the invasion of England will mostly be a land battle. Anyway, that is my best guess.

AS far as 'success' goes, it is similar to a 'classic' 41 attack on the USSR. For the Barbarossa campaign, you know you have success if you knock the Soviets back to the Urals, take the factories, etc. And if you are stopped before you get toe Dnieper, you have failed. In between, is well, the hard zone.

For an invasion of England, if you conquer the UK (hard) and the Soviets aren't in your territory (or about to overrun you), you have won. If they get ashore, use an O-chit, get the US in the war a few turns earlier, and never take London or a factory, you have lost.

Many sea Lions are all or nothing, especially if the CW is cavalier and the Germans overrun them; but they shouldn't be. Sea Lion affects the Soviets, Japan, the US. My first Sea Lion the Germans got crushed in England when the US/CW got air/naval control, and the Germans lost some 10- 15 corps in early 1943 - but the Axis still won. Germany had taken a bunch of factories, but more importantly, the CW convoys were in tatters, they lost considerable production, and the US was diverted. The 'win' was a VP win, with Japan scoring high (as I discussed above).

So the 'in -between' cases are what I call 'the Stuff of Wiffe'. That is, everything affects everything, and you have a bunch of considerations - how much you sacrificed in the land war by building for an invasion, what other strategies you could pursue, how many troops lost? And then the same equation for the Allies. How much production is lost? How has my strategy been diverted? What else could I do? So if an invasion ends up losing a lot of BP's from a physical standpoint, but kept Italy from being conquered, it is probably a huge success.

Sorry I can't be more scientific, but as I said, this is the stuff of WiFFE and what makes the game so interesting - every choice has many consequences and at this point, there are so many implications that an objective mathematical model of success is hard to get.


As far as diverting the British, well, yes, that is how the naval part of the game goes - usually the CW will keep a 'fleet in being' to react to Italy and or Germany. But the whole naval part of the game is stretching them. Your submarines should be stretching their surface forces, and if you feint somewhere, the CW may have to commit. Of course, the danger here is that if he catches the 'diversion' force he can harm it, the naval war has a lot of 'feint'.

But if we are talking about Sea Lion, an experienced player is going to be ready for it. So feinting the home fleet away while it is worried about an invasion will be hard. But that was Raeder's plan in RL, so maybe it can work here!

Best wishes,

Bruce
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Enrico Osvaldi
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man i will never thank you enough for this!
so my game is now in jul/aug 1940 i have the occasion to attack right now and hit him hard where he doesen't expect me to.
So my final plan is this (thanks to you and a friend of mine):i'll attack the UK on the last impulse of the turn and land 4 units (v.leeb included) after the impulse (and hopefully the turn)ends i'll try to get the initiative.
Meanwhile i'll attack spain with germany to make him belive the main attack will be on gibraltar then on sep/oct 40' italy will dow britain and on the first impulse via paradrop will conquer Malta and rush for gibraltar too(i have created vichy,and destroyed it in the impulse after ,even managed to steal the Richelieu!!!)
The main invasion will happen on Portsmouth or Dover..don't know yet i have to check.
In the other side of the world japan has conquered almost all the china..and soon i'll unleash it against the NEI and maybe india or phil.
So what do you think?
should i attack the CW with japan to overwhelm him with problems?
my fleet is not that powerful ,but if i wait some more he will have lots of ships and at that point there's no doubt that he'll crush my poor kriegmarine.
again thanks alot!!!
make me know what you think about my plan!
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Andrew
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Actually, Bruce, I'll disagree on one point - it's entirely possible to take Gibraltar without going through Spain or Morocco (just not entirely easy) - and this leads into one of my other suggestions.

First, the biggest thing to avoid, in my mind, with a Sealion strategy: Whatever happens, don't throw in the towel early. Mostly it's just bad form on the part of the Axis, but it also denies you the option of finding ways to turn your setbacks around.

Second is two other things that can also go along with a Sealion, or can also serve as alternates or backups.

The first one is an invasion of Ireland. Ireland only gets one corps plus a MIL, along with whatever the CW has defending Northern Ireland (usually nothing, maybe 1 corps), so it's a pretty easy invasion target from the Bay of Biscay. It also lets you exert land based air into both the Bay of Biscay and the Faeroes Gap, which is the important thing. The goal here is to choke off all the convoys going to Britain, whether or not you plan to try and go for British conquest. This sort of thing forces Britain to react to you, rather than just him going after your own supply.

The second is what I mentioned first - the other attack route vs Gibraltar, which is to invade Portugal, and from there invade Gibraltar from the Atlantic side. This is much more of an opportunistic attack, but if Britain is heavily invested defending the home islands, you can get a decent attack on the rock even without Morocco by going this way. It will also help if you need to cut any British Morocco defense force out of supply, at that.


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Bruce Jurin
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Enrico,

Good stuff, it sounds like things are going well! Yes I do think Japan should overwhelm the CW, it goes back to the idea that concentration is the key to winning! However, don't ignore easy invasion of Pacific Islands if you find that the US goes Europe first and keep an eye on what the US is building, if they build the Essexes you still need every carrier you can get your hands on. But the good news is that not only does it beat up the CW, there are also a lot of victory cities there.

Andrew,

Thanks, very good analysis, I know there will be a lot of experiences with this and it is great if there is!. I think one difference for us is that it is pretty rare that we don't take out Portugal with the CW on the first 2 or three turns so Germany will never be allowed to invade (we do it before France falls). We do it for a lot of reasons, (resource, Azores, airbase to fly to Med/Gibraltar), along with stopping exactly what you are saying! I also doubt we ever have less than three units in Gibraltar even if London is under attack! But clearly your idea is a good one if available. Indeed if you can invade Portugal on the way through Spain you should do it.

Also agree with Ireland, good point, it is a good prize. Also look for an opportunistic invasion of Liverpool and similar areas!

So the only point where I disagree (maybe) is pulling out! I often pull out in 43 when the US is over big and it is just impossible, or if I've lost fighter superiority. But maybe we don't disagree - clearly you want to commit to this venture if you go in.

All the best,

Bruce



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Enrico Osvaldi
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Hi! Let me update the situation.
My brother(wich is also my opponent) managed to end jul aug with a roll of 0...
but September gave me a gift 3 impulses of fine weather and so i acted:
Italy dow'd the CW and took Malta,Germany(with aan o-chit) dow'd Spain and took Barcellona (even though with heavy losses) and surrounded Madrid.El rif was conquered by italian forces.And last,but not least,the SL. I mangaed to land 2 units on the first impulse on Dover and then ,flipped back up my TRS and took v leeb and another unit there,conquering 5 hexes ,portsmouth included(he really didn't expect me to attack the UK).
He obviously reacted immediately,sending all the nearest ships (spain included)but ,thanks to my NAVs i managed to get an naval air.
Japan dow'd the CW and t's about to conquer Australia,but was attacked heavily by the USSR that managed to get Harbin and pyongyang.
The sad part is that the real english fleet is coming...and it's very very angry.
Well ,that's it! Lat me know what u think about it and again ,thanks!
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Bruce Jurin
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Enrico,

The key here is that you are having a FUN game - much different from a 'defeat Poland, defeat France, hit the USSR with everything' game. Your game sounds wild. From the little I see things are going pretty well for you, but it is a long game!

One question though is you say 'I mangaed to land 2 units on the first impulse on Dover and then ,flipped back up my TRS ' Unless you used the 'trick' of being attacked and aborting to base, then reorganizing and sending out, you can't reorganize a flipped transport at sea.

MAYBE with an offensive chit, see my post below.
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Bruce Jurin
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On my 'SeaLion tutorial', I probably should add one item - Sea Lion is MUCH easier depending on how you interpret one rule that is a tad ambiguous in Raw 7.

In an early SeaLion tutorial here in BGG, I discussed accidentally what we used to do when we first played WiFFE, before RAW 7.0. THE key way we did a Sea Lion was to flip the AMPH and transports up after they invaded with a naval O-chit from an HQ in port. Specifically, we would invade early in the turn (combined usually, sometimes a combined then a land), take a naval, play the naval o-chit, flip the transports and AMPH's, and then take a combined move, moving the fleet down a box (which is a naval move) which allows them to embark units on the coast and invade again on the land part of the impulse. This takes about 4 impulses (you can do it with 3 with combineds) so is a little risky but it is very powerful for the invasion turn if you get good weather.

One of the other posters said this wasn't legal, it looks like you can't do this in RAW 7.0, you can never flips a transport or AMPH at sea. I apologize for the confusion.

That is probably right, unfortunately there is a remnant of the old rule in RAW 7.

11.18.4

You can never reorganize aircraft or naval units at sea - they must be in a hex (exception: Offensive chits in a naval action ~ see 16.2).


This language clearly indicates that a naval o-chit (addressed in 16.2)should allow you to reorganize units at sea; however, there is no mention of it in the text of 16.2.

Anyone with older versions of the rules can see how the rule used to work.


I can't tell you more than that, every group has to decide if the language of 11.18.4 allows it and have a shadow reference to older rules, or to not allow it because 16.2 doesn't say anything. I think most groups don't allow it. We (my group) did, maybe because we remembered the old rules, although we decided not to recently.


However, if you do want to use it, it is THE preferred method of pulling off a SeaLion (and even more so, a D-Day) for a 1940 invasion, especially for J/A or S/O 1940 invasions. It is a very powerful tactic, enough that it changes the entire mechanics of landing.

One reason to believe that 11.18.4 is wrong is because it also says:

You can never reorganise an HQ (except during final reorganisation ~ see 13.5).



This is contradicted by

16.5 Reorganise HQs



If you play an offensive chit at the start of a naval, air, land or combined action, you can immediately turn all HQs controlled by your major power face-up instead of gaining the normal benefits for that action type.

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Enrico Osvaldi
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What do you exactly mean with:"wild"?
And yes,i did manage to get the transports aborted by attack(the situation against the RN is going to get really ugly really soon)and flipped the transports back up with an HQ.
How should i handle spain?! It a mountainous hell.

P.S :I'm quite new to the game ,so if i missed something,please forgive me!
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Bruce Jurin
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Sorry, 'by 'wild' I mean a lot of actions going on around the globe where it is hard to determine the outcome and these actions are seen less often in WiFFE games than, for instance, a 41 Barbarossa. For me, wild is fun!

It looks like you used the main army to attack Spain, and while the CW player was distracted, pull off an invasion of England! Wonderful! And now his angry fleet is coming back - just great stuff! I'm hoping this follows my maxim - always know how to invade England if it isn't properly defended.

With 5 hexes captured in England, how many HQ's and land units do you have in England? You may be in a very good position here. Oh, right, without Amphibs you don't really need the HQ's, so you can now land on the coast directly, so you should be in a very good position to reinforce. You have a port for your ARM, you want a few of those when you can get them across. (Sorry, I've got to keep the rules straight).


Yes, Spain is a tough nut. There are a lot of ways to do this depending on the exact situation. Key often is to use invasions and paradrops for mobility, but you often just have to slog through, making sure you take losses with divisions, MIL, or GAR units. Remember in general it is hard for the CW to reinforce Spain as he can't force rebuild Spanish units and if you get air control in the Bay of Biscay his British units can be out of supply and also can be hard to reinforce. But often it really comes down to attrition, take losses with weaker units, reorg with HQ, and move forward.

In your case where Madrid is surrounded though and you have already landed in England, you are probably best off doing it the boring, old fashioned way - take it down with whatever losses you can with cheap units. If you have 5 hexes in England he isn't going to be sending CW troops there, so without seeing the board, it sounds like just hitting Madrid with everything is the best move. Speed is usually more important now than factor counting, if you conquer the UK it doesn't matter if you lose a few corps in Spain.

The one critical issue here is don't let Spain distract you as it did to your opponent - now that you have landed in England, make sure it is your focus.

Good luck!

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Enrico Osvaldi
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Thank you again for the precious help!
we played a little bit more this evening and the situation changed a bit.
CW has reinforced australia,fearing to lose it completely and,being in a bad situation in the UK(he's got very few units,and Japan had his asian resources cut,the Regia marina destroyed all of his convoy points in the med,due to lack of english ships there ,for obvious reasons)he retreated the forces in the UK to a hex above london(london being difended by gort & others),creating a frail line of defence.
The Kriegsmarine managed to avoid combat twice..
As far as units go those in the uk are now 7:a german marine ,other land units,v.leeb and graziani(viva l'italia!).
My idea is that the key here will be to speed up as much as possible and try to hold in the north sea.
But i have a question. What will i do when my fleet reaches the 0 zone of the sea??Try for a double move ??
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Matteo
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Since you are playing without LOS, you can keep your men supplied by sending a NAV at sea to a higher zone before turn ends... or some spare ships if you left them behind.

If I were you I'd put the MARs on the coast, ready to invade the Newcastle area and open a second front at the break of november, if there's enough firepower.
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Bruce Jurin
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It looks like your game is 'normalizing' somewhat. The CW is creating a defensive line with London and above, you have 7 land units. I say normalizing since (as I indicated above) this is usually how it goes - CW can't really strop the Germans from landing, they want to bottle up the German advance, and the best defensive line is out of ME -109 range for the 109's in France.

For Germany this is the key point. If you stay bottled up you just aren't going to win. You have to break that line. No magic here - you have to slog through with stronger units, air superiority, etc. O-chits are often worth the cost. Why? Because having a lot of units isn't as important as breaking the front which requires concentration. Rebase the fighters to Germany to keep air superiority over the front.

This isn't a job for Leeb and Graziani, send in you BEST units, this isn't a raid. You need to move into England and take those factories.

Don't neglect the potential for further invasions around his rear.

You also need to pay attention to bombing the CW fleet at every chance. It may look infinitely big, but while trying to defend England and attack you, it is often vulnerable, he may also want to bring in land units from the empire, you want to try to stop him with your air power. And of course kill his convoys. As we discussed above, yes have Japan pound them. You are in a committed front, this isn't going to be a blitzkrieg, you have to beat them down.

As far as supply goes, I agree with Matteo. At this point you should probably have a small fleet to go out when the main fleet returns to base. If the weather is good and you aren't using LOS, stay in supply with an air unit. If in bad weather your fleet will be harder to find, you just need a single ship. (Disclaimer - I haven't played without LOS in a bit).

Once again, sounds like fun!
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Enrico Osvaldi
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The problem here is: I don't have that much money!
I give 7 BPs to italy and germany needs mor troops! But also planes,and o-chits!
With 18 BPs what should i give priority to!?
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Bruce Jurin
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First of all I really wouldn't recommend giving 7 BP's to Italy at this point. Your troops should be better than his and as you see you need them yourself. Obviously give him excess resources.

One point is to coordinate. It is maybe OK to give BP's to Italy if they are used to support the Sea Lion, meaning Italy should build out Para's and MAR's. If you have built all of your fighters, then Italian fighters although poor should be built. Finally, in Pif Italy has some very good L3's, not so sure in Classic, but the Italian planes have good range. If Italy builds a class then it relieves the ned for Germany to build them.

For the main issue, the first consideration is: can you win an attrition battle? If you are using 1 D 10 in particular, the key here is to inflict more losses than the CW can reinforce. Right now you have the wrong HQ's in England, you want your best. You can land 3-4 corps a turn, how many can the CW reinforce? Have you cut-off sea access?

Without seeing the board, my guess is that you should win by hitting hard two hexes in an attack, reorganize, hit again. You should be able to crack the line through pressure but it would be better if you had better HQ's. In this strategy, priority is always fighters, along with land units and your good bombers. If you have fighter superiority and can use the Stukas you should get 3:1 type attacks along with groundstrikes. So priority is simple Wiffe – HQ, fighters, land units, bombers. High of course would be para's and Mar's if any were lost. Next priority is probably Nav's and ATR's. Having another Trs would be great but they may take too long to build if you haven't started.

The opposite strategy is to use the o-chit. This is probably best if you have lost fighter superiority and have equality, your planes can't dominate, and you have excess land units that you cannot bring into the fray. Then you need to puncha hole and do it hard.
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Enrico Osvaldi
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I've bought all the italian planes For now (1941) the USA are about to have their first production option and the situation in the UK is better the HQ's there are:V.Bock ,Graziani,Rommel.
London is surrounded and we got Birmingham. The CW is about to stand up again after train i've hitted him with...for 3 turns he had 5 resources per turn ,and very few units,but now he is recieving resources from USA and Canada as soon as the good weather comes I'll unleash all of my land power and with some luck I may conquer the entire UK.
What do you think about the whole situation??
As far as SL goes i am having a lot of fun and I think that this is a strategy which should be used more!
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Bruce Jurin
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It looks like your game is going down one of the main lanes of a Sea Lion. I don't know why so many people think that either the invasion fails on the beach, or if Germany lands, the CW I toast - here you are playing what I consider the 'main' Sea Lion.

That is you landed, advanced, the CW has fought back. If you are still bottled up in London you may be a little behind schedule - but the game is now about the long-term implications. The CW produced at 5 for 3 turns - how many BP losses is that! The Americans are coming to help - but that means they aren't doing something else. And you will capture Gibraltar, potentially keep Italy alive, etc.

Now is this better than the havoc you would have gotten in Russia if you attacked the USSR in 1941? This will be hard to say - the entire strategic direction of the game has changed. I suspect as I said above that this whole exercise will be a big plus for Japan. And even though we often think of Europe as the 'main' front, we have to remember that there are loads of VP cities in the East.

At this point, there are really two strategies - go forward with everything, or go to defense mode. My suspicion is that fighting on is best but you have to be ready to stop. Remember the key to the game - concentration! Don't pin-prick attack strategically - either go in big or don't do it.


But as an outsider, if you ask me who has won the game, that is an easy question - you both did! I get this from your quote:

As far as SL goes i am having a lot of fun and I think that this is a strategy which should be used more!

EXACTLY RIGHT!

And I would be shocked if your opponent isn't feeling the same way. So of course this is the really, really important point.

I don't think if you do sea Lion a few times you are getting just how great a WiFFE like experience can be. And I think you can see what I said above - there is nothing like Sea Lion in the integration of land, sea, and air.

The war in Europe is usually dominated by the land/air war in the USSR - the CW fights a submarine war - the Allies land at D-Day, which takes naval air superiority, but is then mostly a land game.

In the east, the Japan/US war is usually pretty much a carrier/naval/air war with land units mostly for invasions. The war in China is a land war.

We see a 'full' naval/land/air war mostly with Italy. But I think you can see, that isn't anything like a Sea Lion - where both the CW and Germany put everything into it as their main effort. You are struggling with every BP as is the CW. You need everything but can't buy them all. This is WiFFE at its best! And I'm sure both you and your opponent have found that you could have done it better - you will of course get better as you do more of them.


There is one other advantage to a Sea Lion as Germany. By analogy, when I was young playing baseball, I didn't have a lot of power - I wasn't a good hitter but I got a few hits by Texas Leaguers, bloops between the infielders and outfielders. Then the outfielders started to come in on me and I didn't get hits.

One day, I finally hit the ball over the outfielders' head! I got a home run. From then on, the outfielders played back again and I got my bloop singles going forward.

Once you pull off a Sea Lion, you will see the CW player keeping a large army in the CW forever more the next time you play. This will open up opportunities in Egypt, the Far east, reduce his counter-attacks, etc.


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