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Subject: Victory condition F; "placing" Political Alignment markers rss

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Steffan O'Sullivan
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Once there's a Political Alignment marker in a Colony space, how can Britain score for that Colony? To remove the marker requires Britain to play a Clandestine Network there, and only then remove the opponent's Political Alignment marker. At that point, Churchill's own Clandestine Network marker is in the Colony, meaning Churchill will not score 2 VPs for it. Is this carrect?

Also, is Removing a Political Alignment marker the same as Placing a Political Alignment marker even though yours won't end up on the board? The wording is important for Global "placement" conditions.

Thanks,
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Steve Carey
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Our sessions have seen the Americans dive right into the colonies (since they have a head start there), and lock out the Brits (doubling-up on Clandestine Networks and/or achieving a Global issue for Self Determination).

I think Churchill needs to capture some Pol-Mil markers on the first Conference and/or prevailing (or at least keeping Neutral) on their Global issue with the US if the UK wants to contest the region.

Of course, if the US and UK battle each other early on that can open doors for the Soviets...
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Jason Sherlock
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Don't let the US get them there in the first place. If you keep the US from winning the Global Issue, then he can't put Political markers in your colonies. In the meantime, kill any Clandestine markers that he is trying to place.
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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Well, thank you, but I'm actually not looking for strategy answers. More rules questions:

I believe there's no way, once the US has a Political Alignment marker on a Colony, for the UK to earn the 2 VP for a blank colony. Is that correct?

(I know they can get 3 VP for their own Political Alignment marker or 1 VP for their own Clandestine Network, I'm just trying to make sure I understand the rules.)

AND: does the act of "removing" a Political Alignment marker count as "placing" it as far as the wording in the various Global Issues?
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Steve Carey
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Sorry to wander off course Stefan, it's so much fun to discuss this game.

My understanding is the same as yours - assuming Self-Determination, for the UK to remove a US Political Alignment marker, they would have had to kick out the US Clandestine Network first and then establish a CN of their own. Even after the US PA subsequently gets removed, the UK is left with a CN there so the colony is not vacant.

A lot of effort for little reward, so it seems. Best bet for the UK is to prevent that from happening.
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Mark Herman
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sos1 wrote:
Once there's a Political Alignment marker in a Colony space, how can Britain score for that Colony? To remove the marker requires Britain to play a Clandestine Network there, and only then remove the opponent's Political Alignment marker. At that point, Churchill's own Clandestine Network marker is in the Colony, meaning Churchill will not score 2 VPs for it. Is this carrect?

Also, is Removing a Political Alignment marker the same as Placing a Political Alignment marker even though yours won't end up on the board? The wording is important for Global "placement" conditions.

Thanks,

I am not sure what you are asking exactly. The 2 VPs for the UK if nothing is in a colony is a consolation score that rarely occurs. It more often happens as a consequence of a late conference clandestine removal event. The UK would prefer to have a political alignment marker for 3 than an empty space for 2.

As far as your second question if colonialism is in effect the US and USSR may not place/ remove political alignment markers.
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Mark Herman
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Steve Carey wrote:
Sorry to wander off course Stefan, it's so much fun to discuss this game.

My understanding is the same as yours - assuming Self-Determination, for the UK to remove a US Political Alignment marker, they would have had to kick out the US Clandestine Network first and then establish a CN of their own. Even after the US PA subsequently gets removed, the UK is left with a CN there so the colony is not vacant.

A lot of effort for little reward, so it seems. Best bet for the UK is to prevent that from happening.

You are correct, but once the UK has its Clandestine network in the space they can then place a political alignment marker to score 3 VP. Am I missing something?
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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MarkHerman wrote:
Steve Carey wrote:
Sorry to wander off course Stefan, it's so much fun to discuss this game.

My understanding is the same as yours - assuming Self-Determination, for the UK to remove a US Political Alignment marker, they would have had to kick out the US Clandestine Network first and then establish a CN of their own. Even after the US PA subsequently gets removed, the UK is left with a CN there so the colony is not vacant.

A lot of effort for little reward, so it seems. Best bet for the UK is to prevent that from happening.

You are correct, but once the UK has its Clandestine network in the space they can then place a political alignment marker to score 3 VP. Am I missing something?
No, you're not missing anything. You answered what I needed to hear.

We were in a situation where Churchill, after removing the US Political Alignment, had no more Political Alignment markers the rest of the game. So he was stuck with his own Clandestine Network in the Colony. Since he couldn't get three points for it, he was hoping he could remove his own Clandestine Network somehow to score two points for having a colony vacant. The answer appears to be no.
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Mark Herman
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sos1 wrote:
MarkHerman wrote:
Steve Carey wrote:
Sorry to wander off course Stefan, it's so much fun to discuss this game.

My understanding is the same as yours - assuming Self-Determination, for the UK to remove a US Political Alignment marker, they would have had to kick out the US Clandestine Network first and then establish a CN of their own. Even after the US PA subsequently gets removed, the UK is left with a CN there so the colony is not vacant.

A lot of effort for little reward, so it seems. Best bet for the UK is to prevent that from happening.

You are correct, but once the UK has its Clandestine network in the space they can then place a political alignment marker to score 3 VP. Am I missing something?
No, you're not missing anything. You answered what I needed to hear.

We were in a situation where Churchill, after removing the US Political Alignment, had no more Political Alignment markers the rest of the game. So he was stuck with his own Clandestine Network in the Colony. Since he couldn't get three points for it, he was hoping he could remove his own Clandestine Network somehow to score two points for having a colony vacant. The answer appears to be no.

Correct, there is no provision in the game to remove your own networks. Why did he have no more Political alignment for the rest of the game? Was it the last conference?
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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The Geek? Yes, it's a good site. But - ah! You should have seen it before the rebranding! It was legible and a joy to read! All gone now, sadly, and so (mostly) am I because of it ...
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MarkHerman wrote:
Correct, there is no provision in the game to remove your own networks. Why did he have no more Political alignment for the rest of the game? Was it the last conference?
He removed the US Political Alignment marker with his last marker in conference 9. In conference 10, he had really bad cards - his highest card was a 3, while Russia's lowest card was a 3! So he got shut out on all the pol/mil issues. All he had was his "native" clandestine network, and he asked if he could spend it to take out his own clandestine network in a colony, as that would at least give him +1. We said no, which you have now verified, thanks!
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Nick Avtges
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...and, just for completeness, while it is completely random whether it will happen or not, it is possible that UK clandestine networks are removed if/when you have to roll on the pol-mil table.
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Adam Ruzzo
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Is there a specific reason it wasn't worded to allow the 2 VP if the colony is empty *or has a british clandestine network*? It seems very odd that they should be punished by one rule and rewarded by another. That seems to be a trend for this game, however.
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Mark Herman
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Bridger wrote:
Is there a specific reason it wasn't worded to allow the 2 VP if the colony is empty *or has a british clandestine network*? It seems very odd that they should be punished by one rule and rewarded by another. That seems to be a trend for this game, however.

The question of reward penalty are not so cut and dried in Churchill. You do not always want to score more points. What I do not want is the UK to have a way to manipulate 5 VP.
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