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Subject: USA forces ...as a west satellite rss

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kesavan sittampalam
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On 1942 onwards, I note that an USA unit of each primary type is arrives......."Af, fleet, infantry, tank

No subs produced by US?

I also note that if the US is at least an Associate, its POP & RES go to the west.
Does this change when it becomes a satellite and begins producing its own no-cost units?
Pg 10 seems to say NO. (Green table)
 
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Pete Menconi
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US subs were deployed into the Pacific, so no US subs to Euro. POP/RES unchanged (West) when USA is satellite.

If interested in submarine effects, Craig is working on a Pacific Theater companion game to TnT.
 
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kesavan sittampalam
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Thanks for the prompt reply

We r doing this game for the first time tomorrow.

Very excited
 
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Tucker Taylor
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scouterpmphx wrote:
If interested in submarine effects, Craig is working on a Pacific Theater companion game to TnT.
... you have my attention.
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Craig Besinque
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Re: USA forces .. US Subs
Kesavan,

US Forces arrive on time, provided the USA is a Satellite after applying the automatic +1 Influence at the beginning of the noted years (1942+). They do NOT arrive for that Year if that is not the case.

Additional USA units (Subs Carriers, etc) are available for building by the West if desired, in addition to the "automatic" USA forces.

Craig
 
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Mark Buetow
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cbesinque wrote:
Kesavan,

US Forces arrive on time, provided the USA is a Satellite after applying the automatic +1 Influence at the beginning of the noted years (1942+). They do NOT arrive for that Year if that is not the case.

Additional USA units (Subs Carriers, etc) are available for building by the West if desired, in addition to the "automatic" USA forces.

Craig

Can the West build US forces (like any other forces) once they're a satellite (any year?)
 
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Craig Besinque
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Yep.

You put USA forces on the board starting 1942 provided they are a Satellite at that point (counting the free Influence they get to start the year).

You can build them one step in that year's Production, and/or additional USA units in the Block mix.

But remember USA units cannot leave the USA unless the West is at War.

Craig

PS: Brian pointed out to me I may have missed the point. Say USA becomes a West Satellite in 1936: can the West build USA forces?

The answer is no: 8.43 states that USA Forces are eligible to arrive if it is "1942 or later". The exception being a VoN of the USA as detailed in 8.46.

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Mark Buetow
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cbesinque wrote:
Yep.

You put USA forces on the board starting 1942 provided they are a Satellite at that point (counting the free Influence they get to start the year).

You can build them one step in that year's Production, and/or additional USA units in the Block mix.

But remember USA units cannot leave the USA unless the West is at War.

Craig

PS: Brian pointed out to me I may have missed the point. Say USA becomes a West Satellite in 1936: can the West build USA forces?

The answer is no: 8.43 states that USA Forces are eligible to arrive if it is "1942 or later". The exception being a VoN of the USA as detailed in 8.46.


That says "arrive" which means, to me, arrive as in automatically like they do in 1942; but "arrive" doesn't mean I can't build them on my own in the US using West Production, prior to 1942.

So, simple question: Can the West, using Production as normal, build US units prior to 1942 if the US is a satellite?

 
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Brian Evans
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No, USA blocks may not be built until "US Forces arrive".

I've been trumped. See Craig's post below.
 
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Craig Besinque
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Re: Building USA units early as a West satellite
OK, got it. Mark has a good point.

In 8.42, "USA Forces" is capitalized, meaning it is used in a game-defined sense, with a reference to 8.45 USA Forces. Speaking of USA Forces that "arrive" does distinguish them from units being built by Production.

There is nothing in the rules to indicate that building USA units by Production is treated any differently than for any other Satellite (remembering that they can't leave the USA until the West is at War).

So if the USA becomes a West Satellite in 1936 Diplomacy (3 Influence), USA cadres can be built in 1937 Production and onward by the West (though it is hard to see a reason to prefer them to building British/ French units at that point). Interested to hear the situation where this might be desirable . . .

IMO this makes sense for this game: if the USA is a bonafide West Satellite (military ally) and the West is at War (seemingly the only situation where building USA units would be desirable), there is no reason the USA should have to wait until 1942 to build military units.

Craig

PS: There is no way USA units can be built in 1936: the USA cannot be a West Satellite until 1936 Government (Diplomacy), which happens after 1936 Production.


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kesavan sittampalam
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If the US is a satellite in 1936, I understand that US units can be built by normal production.
If the west is at war in 1937, will the "no cost" units that were due in 1942 onwards, be brought forward starting in 1937?
ie the US mobilises and ups war production earlier?

Will the automatic "one US influence" due in 1942 also be brought forward to 1937?
 
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Craig Besinque
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If the USA is a West Satellite in 1936 (nice going!), then USA units can be built for West Production Points beginning in 1937 Production.

The free units and automatic Influence bumps do NOT get moved forward.

This is assuming there was no Violation of Neutrality on the USA (ie attack by the Axis or USSR). If so, that is covered in 8.46.

Craig
 
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Brian Evans
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I'm still trying to figure out why you would want to build usa units before us forces arrive. I'm very curious as to how this became a thing! But it's a good test case. You get 5 points for the question.

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Mark Buetow
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Furyn wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why you would want to build usa units before us forces arrive. I'm very curious as to how this became a thing! But it's a good test case. You get 5 points for the question.


Lend Lease...?

I'm not sure either but I want to make sure I'm reading and interpreting the rules correctly in any case.
 
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Nick Rice
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Just to clarify, when US is a satellite, does West get both the units and the POP/RES or do they just get the units?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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If the Germans are building a LOT of subs, you might want more naval blocks than the British have available.
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Brian Evans
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NickRice wrote:

Just to clarify, when US is a satellite, does West get both the units and the POP/RES or do they just get the units?

Thanks in advance.

If USA is just an associate, you would get the POP/RES. So certainly, you get the POP/RES if the USA is a west satellite.
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Gary Moody
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There are a couple of good reasons I could see for building some US units before 1942 if you should get the USA as a satellite. The most obvious is to beef up the North Atlantic patrols against subs. The British alone are hard pressed to put air out in every sea area to hunt down u-boats. And an air unit in England cannot patrol the North Atlantic without first re-basing to Canada or the US, unless the West has heavy bombers. Gotta love them Liberators..

While small CV air are unlikely to directly hurt u-boats, for the critical North Atlantic if the West gets patrols of any type in all the adjacent areas the u-boat can be prevented from retreating. This gives the hunter-killer teams the West should be setting up the opportunity to engage the u-boat with, hopefully, sonar equipped fleets. The u-boat cannot retreat and must wait until the end of combat to escape. And he is still pinned down for re-engagement the next West movement.

This does presume England is properly garrisoned. :-)

As I have been working out how best to deal with blokade the West subs are not to be overloked. They will get a shot at the u-boats, after the air and before the sub can retreat, if he has been left an escape route.

Man, I love the options that can be played out. :-)
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Doug DeMoss
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Western subs will only get a shot against German subs if the Germans are attacking. Still, they're useful for keeping a block present.
 
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Chris Clarke
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Gary Moody wrote:
And an air unit in England cannot patrol the North Atlantic without first re-basing to Canada or the US, unless the West has heavy bombers. Gotta love them Liberators..

Norh Atlantic is two territories away from England. Why can't an Air unit get there to patrol?
 
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Doug DeMoss
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Ocean areas cost two movement points.
 
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Chris Clarke
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Doh.

I think maybe I should reread the rules before I play again.
 
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