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Tank on Tank: East Front» Forums » Variants

Subject: Gun Caliber Modifiers rss

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Mike Nagel
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ToT is a fun game with a couple of really neat mechanics. It's a great intro game and perfect to bring in the young 'uns. Still, there's one thing about it that really bothers me (probably more than it should).

Every unit has the same chance of eliminating any specific unit. For instance, both an armored car with a 40mm gun and a monster tank with an 80mm+ gun have the same chance of blowing up a Tiger tank. This just doesn't sit right with me.

I realize that ToT is a very simple game and that I shouldn't read too much into it, but still ...

Anyway, here's a variant that I cooked up to address this "problem." I think I've taken everything into account that needs to be. Let me know if I've forgotten anything.

Enjoy!

GUN CALIBER MODIFIERS

When an armored (non-personnel) unit is targeting an armored unit, its gun caliber may make the shot more or less effective. Note, we're assuming that any AT guns in play are large enough to do their jobs, so they're not included in this variant.

If the firing unit has a large gun caliber, the firing unit rolls three dice and takes the best two results. However, if any of the two dice are snake-eyes (roll of 2), the attack automatically misses.

If the firing unit has a small gun caliber, the firing unit rolls three dice and takes the worst two results. However, if any two dice are box cars (roll of 12), the attack automatically hits.

In either case, if an Ace is in play, re-roll all three dice. Apply any die roll modifiers after determining the dice to use.

The affected units are as follows:

USA
Pershing (Large)
M8 (Small)

GERMANY
Tiger (Large)
King Tiger (Large)
Puma (Small)

RUSSIA
KV/85 (Large)
IS-2 (Large)
T-35/85 (Large)

HUNGARY
Zrinyi (Large)

All other units (regardless of nationality) roll two dice, normally.
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Jack Tremble
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Please let us know how it works out in practice...seems logical enough.
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Ken Warren
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That does look reasonable. I don't have the game, but have read the rules. I was wondering if there was any rules for the different sized guns. This could certainly do the trick.
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David Heath
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Pueblo West
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Hey

We really liked the ideas Mike Nagel came up with so we went and put it on a player aid card you can download it and save with your game.

Tank On Tank Gun Variant Card via LnL
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/resources/tank-on-tank-gun-c...

Tank On Tank Gun Variant Card via BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/121010/tank-tank-east-fro...

Let us know what you think.

David
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Kent Reuber
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I've been thinking of something similar, though I was going to change the modifier. For example, large guns attack as though they were 2 units, and small guns as 0 units (that is, the hit roll is unmodified).

If thought about something similar for step reductions: that is, instead of being killed, the unit is replaced by a depleted unit that counts as 0 units firing or, when supporting, 1/2 a unit rounded down (so that it takes 2 depleted units firing at the same target to the +1 that a full strength unit would have.
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Kent Reuber
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According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43M_Zr%C3%ADnyi) the Zrinyi had a 105mm howitzer. Should the Priest, which also has a 105mm gun, also be counted as "Large".
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Lance McMillan
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This sounds like a fantastic idea, but I'm confused. How are the modifiers applied when you have multiple units with different sized weapons firing at the same target? For example, assume I'm the German player and have a King Tiger ("Large" gun), a Pzkw IV (normal gun), and a Puma ("Small" gun) all firing at a Soviet tank -- do I get the "Large" gun bonus (from my King Tiger), or apply the "Small" gun penalty (for my Puma), or do these two cancel each other out so that I treat the shot as a normal attack? What if I have more of one type of gun than the others?
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Lance McMillan
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Just following up in case anyone stumbles across my question and wonders about the answer. Mike Nagel responded to it over on CSW, saying that in all cases you always apply the "best" modifier when different units are firing at the same target. So in the case of the King Tiger, Pzkw IV, and Puma firing together, you'd apply the "Large" gun modifier; in the case of the two Pzkw IV and single Puma, you'd treat it as a normal (unmodified) shot.

Thanks, Mike!
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A.T. Selvaggio
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I don't get the Ace rule. Can someone give me an example of the reroll benefit in this case?
 
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Brett Skinner
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erie
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does this unbalance the game much? should tanks with large guns be worth more points. Do you have suggestions for balancing the existing scenarios?
 
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Mike Nagel
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Brent,

I have not seen it unbalance any scenarios. I still get my butt kicked regardless. Note that it's just an option to try, not an official rules change.
 
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Brett Skinner
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mpnagel wrote:
Brent,

I have not seen it unbalance any scenarios. I still get my butt kicked regardless. Note that it's just an option to try, not an official rules change.

thx for the reply. I really like the optional rule and we've started using it, just wanted to make sure about balance
 
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