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Subject: Teaser #3 rss

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Tom Lehmann
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Here are three more (after Teaser #2) previews for Race for the Galaxy: Xeno Invasion, this time of invasion cards from the bonus Invasion game, not game cards. Enjoy!






Invasion cards come in three waves over the course of the game. You flip over as many invasion cards as players and assign them, high to low, one to each player according to each player's Military vs Xenos (from high to low). Military vs Xenos is a player's Military plus any specific Military vs Xenos.

A player's Military vs. Xenos, plus any temporary Military or Defense vs Xenos, must either exceed the number shown or that player must damage a world, flipping it facedown until it is repaired.

A ?+# invasion card is considered higher than all numbered invasion cards when handing cards out. Its invasion strength equals the defender's Military -- not counting any temporary military, defense vs Xenos, or specific Military vs Xenos -- plus the number shown. The defender must therefore have some large enough combination of temporary Military, Defense, or specific Military vs Xenos to overcome this invasion threat.
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Serge Levert
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I like that it uses cards rather than tokens.
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Tom Lehmann
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Using cards makes it easier to shuffle and stack each wave during setup rather than having to try to keep different piles of tokens separate.
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Daniel B-G
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I love the scaling of the destruction in the artwork. The ?+4 is also a little terrifying given I tend to be the person with the most military.
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Serge Levert
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DAAAN wrote:
I love the scaling of the destruction in the artwork. The ?+4 is also a little terrifying given I tend to be the person with the most military.

I'd noticed the scaling between the first 2, but didn't even realize the 3rd was the same picture!
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P. Fowler
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Interesting. What is the trigger that gets these dealt out? I can't come up with anything reasonable...
 
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Rafał Kruczek
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Using cards makes it easier to shuffle and stack each wave during setup rather than having to try to keep different piles of tokens separate.

Are these cards regular size or smaller?
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Regular size.
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David
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I'm liking the look of this xeno invasion part...
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Tomas Hejna
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So, the Defense against Xenos might be more useful than the Military against Xenos? (at least for some tableaus)
 
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Rafał Kruczek
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Tom Lehmann wrote:

A player's Military vs. Xenos, plus any temporary Military or Defense vs Xenos, must either exceed the number shown or that player must damage a world, flipping it facedown until it is repaired.

I marked the word "exceed". So it is NOT enough to have equal Military.
When I first saw this Teaser I read this as "equal or higher". Like Military settle works.

I know this as logical consequence of how Takeovers worked, but still it isn't very intuitive.
 
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John
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Actually you could view this as being the same as how a military settle works if you look at it from the invaders point of view. In a military settle you are the invader - equalling the defence is enough. In the invasion game the Xenos are the invader and you are the defender - if they equal the defence then they can settle.
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Tom Lehmann
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rafal100 wrote:
I marked the word "exceed". So it is NOT enough to have equal Military.

Correct. The Xenos are attacking; the players are defending. The invasion rules are consistent with the rules for Military conquest.
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Tom Lehmann
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XehutL wrote:
So, the Defense against Xenos might be more useful than the Military against Xenos? (at least for some tableaus)

Not for defeating ?+X invasions. They are the same.

For determining that you get a lower strength invasion card, yes, this is correct. However, you haven't heard all the rules. For three other purposes, Military vs. Xenos is better than Defense vs. Xenos.

Obviously, there need to be trade-offs; otherwise, strategies involving pay-for-military powers would be stupid to pursue in the invasion game.
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Henry Chang
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Tom Lehmann wrote:

The Xenos are attacking; the players are defending.


I hope there is a 6th expansion in which the players are attacking and the Xenos are defending!! (or did I miss any news about that already being announced?)

Actually expansion may not be the best idea for the attack-game, because there is no longer time to explore and settle when you're attacking! Make it recon/install/deploy/attack(+supply)/reload for the actions!

Oh on second thought not even the action-selection mechanics is required, make it RftG-theme and I will be interested!
 
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John
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hinghenry wrote:
I hope there is a 6th expansion in which the players are attacking and the Xenos are defending!! (or did I miss any news about that already being announced?)

There are Xenos military worlds so this expansion had the players attacking the Xenos. Tom has said that there are no plans for another expansion in this arc bit he isn't ruling it out either.
 
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Rafał Kruczek
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
rafal100 wrote:
I marked the word "exceed". So it is NOT enough to have equal Military.

Correct. The Xenos are attacking; the players are defending. The invasion rules are consistent with the rules for Military conquest.


I understand that analogy.
But this is not how some people think.

Scenario A. I see number on card - for example defense of military world - and I want to have Military + specialized bonus + temporary military bonus EQUAL or GREATER than TARGET NUMBER.

Scenario B. I see number on card - for example strength of Xeno attack - and I want to have Military + specialized bonus + temporary military bonus EQUAL or GREATER than TARGET NUMBER.

After using Scenario A , several thousands of times - I must actively remember that in scenario B it is only "GREATER".

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John
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Yes, I see what you mean and agree that it could be difficult to remember, but I don't think they could have done anything else.
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Tom Lehmann
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rafal100 wrote:
After using Scenario A , several thousands of times - I must actively remember that in scenario B it is only "GREATER".

Many Race players have used the Race Trade prices several thousands of times; now, with Roll, they have to remember that they are 1 "GREATER". Big deal. I don't see hundreds of posts from Race players complaining about this *in practice*.

I'm sure some people occasionally screw up the Roll Trade prices -- I know I have -- but it's not a huge problem. The Roll prices have to be 1 higher, given how the shipping rules work. We could have avoided this by having the shipper die of each shipper pair always returning to the cup, but doing that would break other parts of the system.

Stop borrowing trouble in advance of actually playing the game.
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Tomas Hejna
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Tom, I'm not complaining or anything - just curious: weren't you someday considering use of +0.5 for this purpose? I know that it might look ugly and rise other questions, but it can also clear all similar 'equal' or 'greater' confusions.

It might be used as universal rule:
attacking gives base bonus strenght of half a point
 
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Tom Lehmann
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XehutL wrote:
weren't you someday considering use of +0.5 for this purpose?

No.

Quote:
It might be used as universal rule:
attacking gives base bonus strenght of half a point

We already have a universal rule: "attackers win ties".

I fail to see any advantage in restating this using numbers.
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Tomas Hejna
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
I fail to see any advantage in restating this using numbers.

I was first pointing to the invasion cards (let's say they would state 2.5, 5.5, +4.5 values for example) but latter jumped to other general use of it (which perhaps could make better sense as memory helper for someone). I apology for moving too quickly from that original question.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Introducing .5 values on the Invasion cards, while keeping normal military at whole numbers, would result in two *different* procedures for conquering worlds: "Remember to add .5 when attacking worlds, but don't do this when resolving Xeno invasions (as it is already on the cards)."

And that's before we get into other complications, such as having to tell players to remember to add .5 to their *collective* military vs Xenos but not to each of their individual attack strengths when totaling their military vs Xenos to determine if the Xenos have been repulsed!

Then there's the issue of negative Military comparisons: many people experience issues when comparing negative numbers, such as -.5 being greater than -1 (since the absolute magnitude goes the other way). For them, it's easier to see that -1 is the same as -1 and, since the attacker wins ties, the invasion succeeds.

Your proposed rule/implementation, imo, is far worse than simply remembering "attackers win ties".

Frankly, if players can't figure out when they are defending vs invasions and when they are attempting to repulse the Xenos, they shouldn't be playing the invasion game.
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Tomas Hejna
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Thank you for your point of view / thoughts about it Tom.

Still, the values on the invasions cards only would be enough (i.e. without any further ruling beyond and/or general implementing - only the Xenos would get .5), but of course - completely out of system in that way and unneccessary.

Tom Lehmann wrote:
Frankly, if players can't figure out when they are defending vs invasions and when they are attempting to repulse the Xenos, they shouldn't be playing the invasion game.

I agree.
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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XehutL wrote:
Still, the values on the invasions cards only would be enough (i.e. without any further ruling beyond and/or general implementing - only the Xenos would get .5), but of course - completely out of system in that way and unneccessary.


Yeah, the negative numbers would definitely get messy. People might not have a problem figuring out whether 1.5 is less than 2, but they can often get confused comparing -1.5 and -2. (And yes, there are negative numbers on some of the invasion cards.)

In actual gameplay, I've never found it a problem to remember "attackers win ties." I think part of the reason is because the invasion cards are semi-random. See, when you are conquering a world from your hand on Settle, you know what number is on the world and so you have a specific number to go for. But you almost never know for sure what the Xenos are going to attack you at, so you can't really "plan ahead" to hit a specific goal number to defend against the Xenos. Instead you have some general idea on the range, get your Military into the right ballpark, and hope you have enough temporary Military to handle things if the Xenos turn out to be particularly nasty.
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