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Evolution: Flight» Forums » Rules

Subject: Good Eyesight rss

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Ron Ginther
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We had our first game of Evolution/Flight last night and it became important on the order of the cards that act post trait reveal and pre-food card reveal. For Instance:

1. Multiple Dive Bombs played, how is the order resolved? We decided to create a sub round going in player order to have anyone play event cards in player order.

2. Multiple Good Eyesight cards. A few of these and any food left over from the previous round is gone before the Food card reveal. Is this handled in turn order as well, one species per person?

I think that covers our concerns, any feedback is appreciated.

BTW: A Body Size 3 Avian Carnivore and POP of 4 with pack hunting is a pretty devastating combo!! Got me the win late by knocking my brothers BS 3 Avian herbivore out of the sky during the last 2 turns.

Thanks,

Ron
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Yes, all triggered effects are done in turn order when needed, and each player can determine the order of their triggered traits if they have more than one that triggers.
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kalma kalma
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And just to be totally clear on on this. Does "all triggered effects are done in turn order when needed and each player can determine the order of their triggered traits" mean

A. Starting player triggers all of his cards in any order he wants and then the next player does likewise and so on.

or

B. Starting player triggers one of is cards and then the next player does likewise and so on. You continue go around the table until all the cards have been triggered.

Option A would lead into faster and cleaner gameplay, but I could see arguments made for option B, too. In the base game it's easy handle cards that trigger before the Food Cards are revealed. Everybody handles their Long Necks and Fertiles simultaneously, but I see it can get tricky with the Flight.

Say...

Watering Hole has 2 Food from the previous round.

Player 1 (Starting Player) has an Eyesight and a Fertile to trigger
Player 2 has Fertile.
Player 3 has Eyesight

Whether option A or B used makes quite a difference in above situation. Okay better stop rambling now.
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John Galietta III
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I would use Option A.


I also found myself splitting a couple more phases when we played with events for the first time. Ended up with:

Draw
Play cards
Reveal Traits
Play "pre food reveal" events/trait effects
Reveal food
Play "post food reveal" events/trait effects
Feeding phase
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Official Answer:
Option A.
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John Galietta III
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Logical. Good to know.
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Ron Ginther
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Thanks Dominic for the official answer and to the other folks who lent a hand.

This game has really gone over well with our group!! First player has a big advantage here!

Thanks,

Ron
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Andrew Watson
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kalma wrote:
A. Starting player triggers all of his cards in any order he wants and then the next player does likewise and so on...

Option A would lead into faster and cleaner gameplay...

Okay better stop rambling now.


I for one never thought you were rambling. Rather, you were taking the time to make sure the question was clear. This enabled Dominic to answer the question very concisely, without having to tease out further implications.

I thought that the answer would be the one that lead to cleaner gameplay. That seems to be one of the guiding principles of Evolution design.

Yes, there are cases in which the first player will gorge, leaving little. That's one more aspect of the game that requires watching other players closely (as if you have Good Eyesight!).
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Mr Punter
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kalma wrote:

A. Starting player triggers all of his cards in any order he wants and then the next player does likewise and so on.

Say...

Watering Hole has 2 Food from the previous round.

Player 1 (Starting Player) has an Eyesight and a Fertile to trigger
Player 2 has Fertile.
Player 3 has Eyesight



Option A was confirmed as correct.

Does that mean in the example above Player 2's fertile wouldn't trigger if Player 1's eyesight ate the 2 food therefore leaving the watering hole barren by the pre-food phase for Player 2?

I'd understand that Eyesight would have a turn order requirement in the example, but have been playing that all Fertile cards (much like Long Neck) would all trigger simultaneously prior to Eyesight.
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Hobbess wrote:
Does that mean in the example above Player 2's fertile wouldn't trigger if Player 1's eyesight ate the 2 food therefore leaving the watering hole barren by the pre-food phase for Player 2?

I'd understand that Eyesight would have a turn order requirement in the example, but have been playing that all Fertile cards (much like Long Neck) would all trigger simultaneously prior to Eyesight.


Yes, Fertile would not trigger for the players later in the turn order (though Long Neck will always trigger since there isn't a card that can stop it).

The interplay between the Watering Hole food and the Cliff food is central to this expansion. Good Eyesight, Nesting, and Dive Bomb are ways to stop Fertile whereas Seed Dispersal can trigger Fertile (and Good Eyesight). Add Cooperation to the chain and there are some very powerful ways to influence the food sources.
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Mr Punter
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Thanks for clarifying.

I'm editing Stryyder's phase order as looking at the cards I think there are 2 types, post-trait reveal ones (Dive Bomb being one example) and then pre-food reveal ones (eg long neck). I don't see any post-food reveal cards (correct me if I'm wrong)

So are there 2 distinct phases which are done in turn order so twice round the table or just one phase and once around where everyone does everything? (confirmed below - twice around the table)

Draw
Play cards
Reveal Traits
Play "post trait reveal" events/trait effects
- event cards: Seed Dispersal, Dive Bomb, Invasive Species and Pounce
- trait cards trigger: Rapid Mutation
Play "pre food reveal" events/trait effects
- trait cards trigger: Fat Tissue, Fertile, Long Neck, Nesting, Good Eyesight, Brood Parasite, Unstable DNA
Reveal food
Feeding phase
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Yes, this is exactly correct. Thanks for clarifying!
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Mr Punter
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Wondering if this is worth it's own post - it's a fairly useful rules clarification. Obviously won't be a huge deal every turn, but on turns with event cards and other with multiple eye-sights and nesting's etc is pretty important.

Had a blast with my 1st flight play last night, after stumbling in the prior teaching game with the base set. I evolved a couple of parasitic fertile early birds and proceeded to eat plants where I chose. Most the other birds went carnivore leaving mine with ample cliff vegetation, and most turns could be very choosy leaving just enough in the watering hole so my fertile kept triggering. Sure I got eaten once or twice but would just grow back next turn.
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Andrew Watson
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Hobbess wrote:
So are there 2 distinct phases which are done in turn order so twice round the table or just one phase and once around where everyone does everything? (confirmed below - twice around the table)

Draw
Play cards
Reveal Traits
Play "post trait reveal" events/trait effects
- event cards: Seed Dispersal, Dive Bomb, Invasive Species and Pounce
- trait cards trigger: Rapid Mutation
Play "pre food reveal" events/trait effects
- trait cards trigger: Fat Tissue, Fertile, Long Neck, Nesting, Good Eyesight, Brood Parasite, Unstable DNA
Reveal food
Feeding phase


Thank you very much for the above. But I don't think it's quite right. That's why I've crossed out Fat in the above quote. Fat fires:

When the Food Cards are revealed. So Fat fires after Fertile, etc., in a 3rd phase. If I wasn't so busy/lazy, I'd try to construct an example in which this matters...
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Mr Punter
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Ok good point - also trying to figure out if this could matter. Somewhere within a fatty, fertile, nesting species maybe!

Updated:
Correct as it was earlier
Draw
Play cards
Reveal Traits
Play "post trait reveal" events/trait effects
- event cards: Seed Dispersal, Dive Bomb, Invasive Species and Pounce
- trait cards trigger: Rapid Mutation
Play "pre food reveal" events/trait effects
- trait cards trigger: Fat Tissue, Fertile, Long Neck, Nesting, Good Eyesight, Brood Parasite, Unstable DNA
Reveal food
- trait cards trigger: Fat Tissue (edit - see later posts this is an errata)
Feeding phase

Quick add-on, this image has been invaluable this morning!
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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AndAgainMA wrote:
Hobbess wrote:
So are there 2 distinct phases which are done in turn order so twice round the table or just one phase and once around where everyone does everything? (confirmed below - twice around the table)

Draw
Play cards
Reveal Traits
Play "post trait reveal" events/trait effects
- event cards: Seed Dispersal, Dive Bomb, Invasive Species and Pounce
- trait cards trigger: Rapid Mutation
Play "pre food reveal" events/trait effects
- trait cards trigger: Fat Tissue, Fertile, Long Neck, Nesting, Good Eyesight, Brood Parasite, Unstable DNA
Reveal food
Feeding phase


Thank you very much for the above. But I don't think it's quite right. That's why I've crossed out Fat in the above quote. Fat fires:

When the Food Cards are revealed. So Fat fires after Fertile, etc., in a 3rd phase. If I wasn't so busy/lazy, I'd try to construct an example in which this matters...


Andrew - The new wording on Fat Tissue, Fertile, and Long Neck is "Before the food cards are revealed".
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Andrew Watson
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domcrap wrote:
The new wording on Fat Tissue, Fertile, and Long Neck is "Before the food cards are revealed".


Checking my Fat Tissue cards again, I see "When the Food Cards are revealed". If Fat should read "Before", that's good, since it helps to streamline play. But it's not what it says on my cards -- from the recently-arrived 2015 Kickstarter.
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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AndAgainMA wrote:
domcrap wrote:
The new wording on Fat Tissue, Fertile, and Long Neck is "Before the food cards are revealed".


Checking my Fat Tissue cards again, I see "When the Food Cards are revealed". If Fat should read "Before", that's good, since it helps to streamline play. But it's not what it says on my cards -- from the recently-arrived 2015 Kickstarter.


YIKES!!!! angry

I can't believe it. Everything was changed in the rules for that card, but it was not changed on the text of the card!

soblue

Just a sec...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm googling to find the closest bridge to jump off.


I guess we have an errata:
Fat Tissue should say "Before" the Food Cards are revealed.

This would only matter if you wanted Fat Tissue to trigger before Fertile, but I can't imagine why you'd want that, so I don't think it will affect game play in the slightest. But it still sucks regardless. We'll change it for the next print run.

soblue soblue soblue
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John Galietta III
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It happens. If that is the worst of it, you guys got off easy. I've seen MUCH worse. Still one of the best KS campaigns I've backed to date in terms of timeline, quantity of product: price point and, most importantly, quality of the product itself.
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Thanks John. It means a lot to hear this.
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Andrew Watson
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domcrap wrote:
I can't believe it. Everything was changed in the rules for that card, but it was not changed on the text of the card!


Sorry to have been the bearer of bad news. Have a few Jungle Birds, or other comforting beverages.

I wouldn't have noticed the before/when difference between Fat and the other cards had I not just been looking at all the traits for timing issues. A lot of people will never notice it. Many of those who do will assume it's there to deal with an edge case they will never encounter.

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Mr Punter
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AndAgainMA wrote:
Have a few Jungle Birds, or other comforting beverages.


Solid advice, not a major error by any means.

Looking forward to my 3rd edition cards when I back the climate expansion...
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James
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I guess I am playing with the 2014 edition, because my long neck, fertile, and fat tissue cards all say "when food cards are revealed..."

And they should all say "before food cards are revealed...", right?
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Correct.
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