Jason Daniels
United States
Missouri
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I love the Iron Kingdoms setting. I fell in love with it when I, by chance, stumbled upon a copy of No Quarter in a gaming store on a trip to San Diego. But, I don't play tabletop wargames. I admire the people who do, and the attention they put into their armies, but it's just not my thing. An Iron Kingdoms adventure board game? /drool

I've watched every video about this game. I've read over the rulebook. I'm pretty sure I'm very familiar with how this game will play and that I'll love it. But....here's my issue. In the interview videos, Oz makes it very clear that they want this game to be a gateway into their wargaming line. I'm not buying into that. Can't make me. Thanks for trying.

But I digress. The point of my post is that I have one, and only one, problem with this game. Replayability. I can live with the bland board, that's no issue for me. But this game appears to be designed for all four heroes to be in play at all times. If that's the case, then having at least six or eight heroes would have lengthened the game's lifespan considerably because if you've seen everyone in play, why play again? Not for the encounter variables, IMO.

I really feel like this game will need expansions to be a truly worthwhile purchase.
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Mishka Bear
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Reynoldsburg
OH
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I completely agree. The lack of replayability due to there being only 4 heroes is exactly why I didn't preorder it. I love adventure board games; they're my favorite genre, and I love the theme, but I just don't think Undercity will provide enough adventure for its price. Maybe I'm just cheap, but whatever.

I have to admit that they succeeded with making a gateway to their RPG, though. I'd be interested to play that a lot more than the board game.
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Thomas Grimstad
United States
Fort Worth
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I really hope for expansions as well. I want this game even if it is a bit limited. I am hopeful (though I have no real evidence for this) they might put out free scenarios to expand the game even before they release extra boxes of minis and stuff. In the past, they did release free extra rules for grind leagues and a 4 way game of grind. However that game never really took off.

Also I think they were trying to get this game to sell better [than some of their past board game attempts] and they know their target audience is wargamers. Also the minis are great for crossovers and use in their RPG. So I think they are trying to build as much value for extra use into this box as possible. However, kind of like most things that are built for too many purposes, sometimes the original most used purpose is not implemented as well as it could be. It would also be interesting to see special solos or character cards for characters that already exist in warmachine or hordes become playable heroes. Would love to see an apprentice warcaster or Warlock training a fresh warbeast.

I am still waiting on mine to get here in the mail and will see how it works out. But I think if they could make a scenario generator or character generator online that would really help this games longevity. I really don't want to see The Undercity go the way of Grind.

Sadly I never get enough time to game so 7 chapters might be just enough for me to be able to actually play through the game once completely in a year or so.

A few things to note from watching the videos though is that each character has different abilities they can choose from so that will give one variety on how to build a hero as that hero advances. And there are rules to play directly to a scenario without having to run all the previous scenarios. These two things do add to replay-ability. and if you have a group of 4 or so each of you can try a different hero every run-through.

Just my 2 . Maybe a friend will buy it so you don't have to.

PS just listening to the PP podcast: http://privateerpress.com/primecast/primecast-episode-21 they mention a necromancer (and new bad guys) in a possible new product and even the possibility of extra senarios in their magazine "No Quarter". They mention specifically No quarter 62 having a scenario.
-edit to add info from podcast as I was listening-
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Matt Brown
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Okemos
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Considering the retail price point, four characters is a little under whelming. Products like Mice and Mystics and Star Wars: Imperial Assault offer more at equal if not lower price ranges.
 
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Jason Daniels
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Ok, some points based on your feedback so far:
If they put scenarios in No Quarter, that would be awesome. I'd be all over that. I'd go from an issue every once in a while to a sub (probably should anyway, is a good mag). This would be a good, cheap method for them to keep the game viable in the long term.

Should they make character cards for existing characters, I'd also be on that. I have no issue buying some of their miniatures if they provide me with what I need to play them in Undercity. I had already considered this anyway and possibly trying to build my own cards based on the rpg books, but, honestly, I would rather work on my Old Republic campaign for IA.

Still, boxed, dedicated expansions is the best thing they could do here. I really hope they don't one-shot this and walk away. Too much potential with this one.
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Denis Maddalena
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Stafford
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matthean wrote:
Considering the retail price point, four characters is a little under whelming. Products like Mice and Mystics and Star Wars: Imperial Assault offer more at equal if not lower price ranges.

Mice and Mystics was more characters, but only four enemy types whatsoever... and much lower quality overall. The game pushes you into a very specific direction, which is why all characters need to be in play at all times, and certain characters dying cause auto-lose. You're very much just reenacting a story.

The FFG dungeon crawls are insanely robust by comparison. In having the GM level up too, it causes resounding effects on playability even within the same campaign played over again. The little ten dollar lieutenant packs do the same. The choice in enemy groups too. But the downside here is one player must be opposing the others. The coop missions are hardly full of the same replay.

So... this game is somewhere in between. But rest assured, if the game is solid, you'll see fan creations and conversions shortly and have to spend an hour clicking through the Files section. Especially if anyone asks for and receives file templates from PP. That would open the floodgates of creativity more than anything, and you'll spend time fighting unbalanced crocmen and super polished lightning knights right quick.

Remember that game rules are just a starting point. Unless you're doing something competitive (like an OP tournament), the game only fails if your creativity does, or if your friends are unwilling to let loose. If you can take the foundation and make it more to your liking, definitely do so. If your friends don't like it, evaluate your choices, both modifications to the system and your friends. Tweak one of the two situations until they work well together. Done!
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Chris Miller
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I bought this game without much research,because I love Warmachine and Iron Kingdoms. When I read the books in the box and saw that it's meant to be played as a campaign only I was a little disappointed. I doubt there is much replayability here because there are no options, and the story unfolds as you go. Overall I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of first. The scenarios have lengthy intro stories so it should be approached as an rpg board game hybrid.

I expect we will see expansions and new adventures shortly however. There are actually pieces in the box that are listed as "not used in the core set" or something to that effect.
 
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Brian Fox
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I think it's very safe to say that we can expect future expansions, introducing new scenarios, heroes, and bad guys. I anticipate that there will be some reciprocity for the Unleashed heroes to get rules for Undercity, either online or in No Quarter (NQ seems like a good format for one off scenarios too).

There seems to be two main stumbling blocks to replayability: a limited number of heroes (4), and only 7 missions.

I think there's a lot more depth to the 4 heroes than people are expecting, based on their ability upgrades. Milo can purchase upgrades to emphasize his healing abilities, his grenades, or his knifework. Gardek can take upgrades to improve his regeneration, his damage mitigation, or his damage output. Pogg can spend XP improving Doorstop, improving his interaction with Doorstop, or making himself more slippery. Canice has a bunch of options too — give her armor, upgrade her sword, and make her a close ranged duelist. Or give her disruptive abilities to push bad guys around/knock them down. You can upgrade her runeshots to do better single target damage or take down multiple enemies at once. Unless you're conceptually/aesthetically frustrated by only 4 heroes, I think there is plenty of variety in the character's gameplay to make it replayable. The random feat cards combined with different ways to upgrade each feat card means that you could play two campaigns with someone like Milo and have it feel like a very different character (in one, a healer; another, a mad bomber; another , a knife-wielding cut-throat). If you're playing with friends, it's likely you won't play the same character over and over either.

As for the scenarios, I'm a bit more on the fence about that. I think it'll be okay. Randomized villain spawning will keep it from being too samey, and the side quests will shake it up a bit. Coming from the LotR LCG (also cooperative/scenario based) I imagine that a few of the scenarios will stand out as better/more fun than the others and those will be the ones I revisit more frequently.

Difficulty is a big factor in replayability to me, and I'm still a bit nervous about that (have it all set up to play through with my fiance, but haven't started yet). If it's too easy, there's no challenge and that makes it uninteresting to replay. Too difficult, and it likely won't hold interest for my casual gaming friends who I'm hoping will enjoy this most. There seems to be plenty of ways to increase/lessen the difficulty so I'm hopeful there's a good balance to be struck (and maybe that balance is fine right out of the box).
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navajas
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matthean wrote:
Considering the retail price point, four characters is a little under whelming. Products like Mice and Mystics and Star Wars: Imperial Assault offer more at equal if not lower price ranges.

Can't speak to Star Wars, but unlike Mice and Mystics, Undercity does not take an interminably long time to play and, so far, actually offers the players choices.

The board, if anything, is uglier in person. That said, Mice and Mystics has a playing surface that I'd consider framing and mounting on my wall, but you'd have to tie me to a chair and put a fish bowl full of nitrous oxide on my head to get me to play it ever again.
 
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