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Subject: A Concept, maybe help me expand on it. rss

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Carl Frodge
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So the idea I had was to have cards with 2 parts (like dominoes), where the top has a resource of some sort (lets say corn or meat or something) and the bottom half has an action ("Take 1," "Take 2," "Eat 1," etc.)

So you play the cards either on top of or below the other cards and gain the effects of the combination. So if you connected "Take 1" with "Corn" you would take 1 Corn resource.

You could also play cards in the middle of 2 cards, to get both (See illustrations below).

Example 1:

(Red text should read "You get the combination of the connected cards").

Example 2:


So I have the concept, but I don't really know what to do with it, or how to really form a game around it.

I could maybe do where you collect resources and then sell them, or use them to build something, but I really don't know how to make it work.

Any ideas or thoughts about this?
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John A. White
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Works... I would work on the engine it builds... the problem with "getting" stuff is all the tokens. Figure out a way to execute the engine within a turn.

How do you tell a story within this Mechanic? Rule for Thing to matching thing Rule for action to action being nothing. If the Actions are Genaric enough you can create a response for pairing 2.
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Scott Allen
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Interesting.

"Take 1" "Corn" could really be many different Verb-Noun pairings:

"Kill 1' "Zombie"
"Heal 1" "Human"
etc.

Maybe there are two separate decks - one for gathering resources, and one for combat.

Or, three decks: gathering resources, building armies, combat.

"Mine 1" "Iron"

"Build 1" "Mech Warrior"

"Attack 1" "Cannon"

???
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Carl Frodge
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Narrow Gate Games wrote:
Interesting.

"Take 1" "Corn" could really be many different Verb-Noun pairings:

"Kill 1' "Zombie"
"Heal 1" "Human"
etc.

Maybe there are two separate decks - one for gathering resources, and one for combat.

Or, three decks: gathering resources, building armies, combat.

"Mine 1" "Iron"

"Build 1" "Mech Warrior"

"Attack 1" "Cannon"

???

I dunno, I love the ideas, but I think it would work best if all the cards are built from the middle outward (one deck). Unless you meant that all 3 decks would be played that way, in which case, never mind.

But this is a really good start, I'll definitely think about this.

Oh, here's an idea! What if the "resource" cards had a number on them. So maybe Zombies (3), so you'd put 3 zombie tokens on that card. Then when somebody plays "Kill 1" "Zombie" they kill 1 zombie on that card. Just an idea.

I thought of another things. Going with the zombies/humans theme, what if the actions were "Eat," "Kill," and "Move." And what if, like you said, there were 2 decks. But each player had a different deck (one player played zombies, the other played humans). The zombie player is trying to eat the humans (or their brains anyway), and the human player is trying to kill the zombies. And then maybe the game ends once both decks run out and whoever has more left (zombie or humans) wins. What do you think?
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Scott Allen
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agentkuo wrote:

I thought of another things. Going with the zombies/humans theme, what if the actions were "Eat," "Kill," and "Move." And what if, like you said, there were 2 decks. But each player had a different deck (one player played zombies, the other played humans). The zombie player is trying to eat the humans (or their brains anyway), and the human player is trying to kill the zombies. And then maybe the game ends once both decks run out and whoever has more left (zombie or humans) wins. What do you think?


So, with this idea, would the cards still have 2 halves? Maybe the Human player would have a card that says "Kill 2 Zombies" on one half and have 1, 2, or 3 Humans on the other half (it takes that many Humans to kill 2 Zombies)? That way, the Zombie player would have some targets on his/her next turn (the 1-3 Humans).

Best way to learn more is to make some rough prototypes and start playing. It may be great, it may be boring. Play some and figure out what else it needs.

Good luck.
 
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Scott Allen
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And with your "Move" card idea, where are they moving to? Just avoiding the enemy, or is there some goal: move to the "Escape" card, move all your units to the same card to win, etc.?

Without a goal like that, the game may just be sort of 1 dimensional.
 
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Carl Frodge
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Narrow Gate Games wrote:
agentkuo wrote:

I thought of another things. Going with the zombies/humans theme, what if the actions were "Eat," "Kill," and "Move." And what if, like you said, there were 2 decks. But each player had a different deck (one player played zombies, the other played humans). The zombie player is trying to eat the humans (or their brains anyway), and the human player is trying to kill the zombies. And then maybe the game ends once both decks run out and whoever has more left (zombie or humans) wins. What do you think?


So, with this idea, would the cards still have 2 halves? Maybe the Human player would have a card that says "Kill 2 Zombies" on one half and have 1, 2, or 3 Humans on the other half (it takes that many Humans to kill 2 Zombies)? That way, the Zombie player would have some targets on his/her next turn (the 1-3 Humans).

No, no, the cards would still have 2 halves. The human players would have Humans (and a number for how many go on that card), and then an action (either Move or Kill). If you lined up "KIll X" next to zombies, you could kill that many zombies on the card it's next to. If you lined up "Move" with Humans, you could move humans on that card to another card (maybe one in the middle, so they can't be bitten by the zombies). Or you could line up "Move" with "Zombies" to move them away from you or something.

Quote:
Best way to learn more is to make some rough prototypes and start playing. It may be great, it may be boring. Play some and figure out what else it needs.

Good luck.

I'll definitely get on that. I think it has potential, anyway.

Narrow Gate Games wrote:
And with your "Move" card idea, where are they moving to? Just avoiding the enemy, or is there some goal: move to the "Escape" card, move all your units to the same card to win, etc.?

Without a goal like that, the game may just be sort of 1 dimensional.

Well, the goal (as it stands now) is to have the majority of your team (zombies or humans) left on the board at the end of the game, so if you were the humans, you'd want to move them to another human card that's more safe (in the middle, rather than on the outter edge), or you'd want to move zombies to where they'd be more vulnerable for kills.
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Scott Allen
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Sounds like you've got the start of a great little game here.

Once you have something you are happy with, let me know. I'd be glad to playtest it. zombie
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
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To balance things and make it more "puzzly", perhaps have different actions and resources with different colors/icons, e.g. "harvest" (green, sickle icon) could apply to "corn", "fruit" etc., but not "copper", which would require being next to "mine" and be e.g. black with a pick icon. So you could place your cards so that a "harvest" action was next to "corn", "fruit", "iron" and "boat", but choosing the action would just provide "corn" and "fruit" - the other two would need to activate "mine" and "build" respectively next to them on other sides to give anything.

As for indicating the resources generated, just put generic cubes on the resource field(s) and remove them when the resource is used. If players share one "world" of cards, use player colored cubes.

A very interesting concept for worker placement you have there...
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John A. White
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JadedGamer wrote:

A very interesting concept for worker placement you have there...


In his first post, I think it was streamlined (was it not?). Where the placement of the card was an activation choice.

The color constraint is a puzzle that results in failure to match.

The content should be sculpted. too specific and the game loses replayability. Too generic then "who cares" (boring) you would need a phase 2 to the game.

What is nice is the first post mechanism of evoking action value and marring goods.

Listen, You could Split the Action Vertically and create a few Negative actions to create Blocks "don't use this" actions.
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Carl Frodge
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aVoidGames wrote:
JadedGamer wrote:

A very interesting concept for worker placement you have there...


In his first post, I think it was streamlined (was it not?). Where the placement of the card was an activation choice.

The color constraint is a puzzle that results in failure to match.

The content should be sculpted. too specific and the game loses replayability. Too generic then "who cares" (boring) you would need a phase 2 to the game.

I was thinking the same thing, at least if I go the original route, with collecting resources.

Quote:
What is nice is the first post mechanism of evoking action value and marring goods.

Listen, You could Split the Action Vertically and create a few Negative actions to create Blocks "don't use this" actions.

Yeah, I would need to figure out more actions and more ways to use those actions.
 
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John A. White
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agentkuo wrote:
Yeah, I would need to figure out more actions and more ways to use those actions.


Bottom line is "collecting" = more stuff e.g. catan pile of cards and odd set collections.

Maybe mini cards... but what to do with them... ugg
Think "story telling", and Agendas for the players.
Overall game state could be an asset (all card played).
The assets could be 2 fold. 1 theme: a tunnel cavern background 2: an asset within that part of the tunnel(My color shovel for VP). Then some actions could be Visual Iconic like: collapse. You add a collapse cover over the shovel.

Just one idea.
 
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Toy Vault Inc.
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I'm wondering if you could use it as an engine in a co-op game. This would give the players some limited choices on what horrible thing the game does to them.
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John A. White
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toyvaultinc wrote:
I'm wondering if you could use it as an engine in a co-op game. This would give the players some limited choices on what horrible thing the game does to them.


Solid Idea.

Also the forced constrain of number of rows = Spread virus. You start to "feed your people" late game.
 
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Carl Frodge
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I drew out the zombie/human idea on paper, and I can already see it's not gonna work. There's too much "I just won't play cards there."
 
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John A. White
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agentkuo wrote:
I drew out the zombie/human idea on paper, and I can already see it's not gonna work. There's too much "I just won't play cards there."

SO you have the 100% "I want" resource collection
VS.
Avoiding bad stuff "I won't play to create more zombies.

Noting Toy Vaults Idea. Co-OP would work if they debate 1. Make bad stuff happen VS. 2. too many Row/Column rule effects. RULE: Every round where there are 5 rows or columns do this bad thing. Thematic reason.
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To take it another direction, if you add requirements for pairing/connecting cards you could use the actual shape formed by the connected cards as a means to achieve a goal, a la Codenames. It may not be the entire premise of the game, but just a portion of it, whether significant or merely a bonus. Another set of cards you draw from contains the patterns you must match to achieve the reward, ie. If the pattern looks like a square 4 cards across and 3 cards high, once you match your played cards to that pattern, reward is given (or applied at the game's end).

Is the intent to play against other players who also play similarly with the same cards? Or with the humans vs. zombies idea, one or more players could be striving to achieve positive human results while the other player(s) play the zombie hand(s) and remove human cards or inject their deck's cards into your playing area to thwart the success or alter the outcome.

So you're collecting something- fine. Make it a building block to something more significant. And then those items you've acquired as a result become part of the equation of winning the game. You can apply this to a map (either in a race-like format with checkpoints or random destinations which have a purposeful pattern to achieve), a status level of a certain property, (you'll need to define several of things for players to choose from) which all tie in to a destiny type of card. You'll of course need to define these so players cross each other's paths and interact (assuming a competitive game) so people are forced to play offensively and defensively.

Like anything in the early stages, there are numerous directions you can go with this. If you're stuck on how to build the game, maybe work the other direction and pick a theme you enjoy (even though zombies are way overdone they are still somehow popular) and develop the card functions and players' purpose around it.

I agree on the mock-up suggestion. Just grab some cardboard or foam board to design any card placement locations if only to name the card types so they have definition. Do it in pencil and it can always be changed. Grab tokens from another game if you're going that direction and use them for your mental playthroughs. You'll find your ideas sprout quite a bit along the way. Another way I like to cultivate ideas is to simply brainstorm and write down single words then build them with several other single words. Having these mapped or charted in some fashion will likely help you mold your game into using them and, as you found already, realizing early what does/doesn't fit or work like you first believed it would.

Have fun with the learning and designing process, and keep changing it up until it fits. Good luck!
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Derek H
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Bad_Ash wrote:
So you're collecting something- fine. Make it a building block to something more significant. And then those items you've acquired as a result become part of the equation of winning the game. You can apply this to a map (either in a race-like format with checkpoints or random destinations which have a purposeful pattern to achieve), a status level of a certain property, (you'll need to define several of things for players to choose from) which all tie in to a destiny type of card. You'll of course need to define these so players cross each other's paths and interact (assuming a competitive game) so people are forced to play offensively and defensively.

Yup. My thoughts too. Cards form a player's own "board" and you need to create some rules around how they can be played, moved (hint: not if surrounded!), swopped/traded etc. The resources then get generated (tokens?) and then used on the central board where the players actually face-off against each other. Love to see a "sci-fi empires "take on this, but I know that theme does not suit everyone!
 
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Carl Frodge
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gamesbook wrote:
Bad_Ash wrote:
So you're collecting something- fine. Make it a building block to something more significant. And then those items you've acquired as a result become part of the equation of winning the game. You can apply this to a map (either in a race-like format with checkpoints or random destinations which have a purposeful pattern to achieve), a status level of a certain property, (you'll need to define several of things for players to choose from) which all tie in to a destiny type of card. You'll of course need to define these so players cross each other's paths and interact (assuming a competitive game) so people are forced to play offensively and defensively.

Yup. My thoughts too. Cards form a player's own "board" and you need to create some rules around how they can be played, moved (hint: not if surrounded!), swopped/traded etc. The resources then get generated (tokens?) and then used on the central board where the players actually face-off against each other. Love to see a "sci-fi empires "take on this, but I know that theme does not suit everyone!

I don't completely understand what you guys mean. So the original concept would be something the players do individually? And then using the results from that (the resources or whatever) are used to affect the main board?
 
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John A. White
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Sounds clever, but if resulting play is chaos (swap/move actions) then many will disengage. Ameratrash "take that/swap that/discard that" VS. engine building stability. If you do a life or death theme then it's fine.
 
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agentkuo wrote:

I don't completely understand what you guys mean. So the original concept would be something the players do individually? And then using the results from that (the resources or whatever) are used to affect the main board?


Essentially, yes, that's the premise behind my comments. If you're preferring that everyone builds into the same card placement area then that's an entirely different approach to gameplay. I don't believe merely collecting stuff from basic card matches/combos isn't enough in and of itself.

I also don't believe adding layers to the use of the acquired resources would generate chaos- that's what playtesting and mechanics tweaking ensures doesn't happen. There is a method to the madness, but defining an end goal may be what helps you figure out how to get there through the use of your original idea.

aVoidGames wrote:

Think "story telling", and Agendas for the players.


I like this idea too, whether it be the common "destiny/fate/agenda/achievement" concept where you draw X number of them in the beginning and strive to complete as many as possible or make it a larger singular one.

The storytelling method could be interesting. As if you're working a series of events that occur based on your card pairing/matching. But do they have to be completed in a linear fashion? That's really just a race at that point, so then does the story just become the "flavor" of the gameplay? You could in fact just use a scoring track and move a player pawn X spaces for each completed set/collection of resources or give unique values for those sets/matches.

If instead you're actually building up a story, where you're directing a character perhaps to special locations, each of which gains you power-ups of sorts to make your pairing easier/more successful, with each location being an aspect of the story and applicable to the gained special ability. Do you make them one-time-only locations so if Player 1 gets to the Farmer's House, Player 2 can't gain anything by going there and has to rework his matches instead to reach the Armory before Player 1 does to gain that perk?

Again, so many directions! Seriously, get something like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572814993?psc=1&redirect=t... and tinker with various mock-ups. You'll work through your ideas faster, realize what is a dead-end or obstacle and can see it all from the proper perspective with items in hand and on the table.

Yes, I'm wordy.



 
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John Breckenridge
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What if the verbs had arrows on them, and the box was something like


<- Lose 2

Gain 1 ->
|
V



Or possibly make it more visually interesting by dividing the box diagonally with two different colored backgrounds.
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Derek H
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agentkuo wrote:
gamesbook wrote:
Bad_Ash wrote:
So you're collecting something- fine. Make it a building block to something more significant. And then those items you've acquired as a result become part of the equation of winning the game. You can apply this to a map (either in a race-like format with checkpoints or random destinations which have a purposeful pattern to achieve), a status level of a certain property, (you'll need to define several of things for players to choose from) which all tie in to a destiny type of card. You'll of course need to define these so players cross each other's paths and interact (assuming a competitive game) so people are forced to play offensively and defensively.

Yup. My thoughts too. Cards form a player's own "board" and you need to create some rules around how they can be played, moved (hint: not if surrounded!), swopped/traded etc. The resources then get generated (tokens?) and then used on the central board where the players actually face-off against each other. Love to see a "sci-fi empires "take on this, but I know that theme does not suit everyone!

I don't completely understand what you guys mean. So the original concept would be something the players do individually? And then using the results from that (the resources or whatever) are used to affect the main board?

Yes; depending on how you take this forward, a player could then choose between (2 of 3?): expanding their resource base (more cards); generating resources(your card idea); or playing on the central board.
 
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Jeremy Mease
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I like the idea of a card drafting game where all the cards build off of a master card where you can hurt or help yourself depending on what cards you get and how you lay them out attached to the master card and cards extending outward. Go for the easy points and you may end up with a bad card at the end and have to play it in a bad spot.
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