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Subject: Essen SPIEL 2015 no shipping math trade discussion thread rss

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Ben P.
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This is the discussion thread for the no shipping math trade for visitors of the Internationale Spieltage SPIEL'15 (08.10.2015 - 11.10.2015) in Essen!

Please use this thread for all non item-specific discussions as well as for general questions, suggestions, comments and chit-chat.


The trade list including all the rules can be found here:
Essen SPIEL 2015 no shipping math trade

There is a request list where you can add games that you would like to see offered in this trade:
Essen SPIEL 2015 no shipping math trade request list

If you don't want to keep up with this discussion thread, please subscribe to the announcement thread in order not to miss any important information:
Essen SPIEL 2015 no shipping math trade announcement thread

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Ben P.
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What changed compared to last year?

In general, the rules are the same as last year. I highlighted the most important statement of each paragraph in bold. You should still read the complete set of rules once.

Details and a few additional explanations:

- Extended the time between trade results and SPIEL by a few days to cover 2 full weekends and extended the time to create want lists to 2 full weeks (1a, 1b). Which of course means we have to start early - like in the middle of August.

- Now urging everyone to subscribe to the announcement thread at least (0c).

- Trying to raise more awareness for the 24 hour "check your results" period after the results have been posted (1c, 1d). Last year, I received GeekMails asking "hey, when do we get the results?" up to 4 days after the trade was finished. I am still puzzled by the lack of curiosity.

- Clarified the restriction for pre-orders, Kickstarters and other items that involve third parties (2b). Don't offer things you don't have.

- Defined money arbitrage and its consequences (2d).

- Not a change but yes, I kept the trade list item limit (2f). If you really need to get rid of more than 40 games, you should consider additional options or offer bundles of games. Keep in mind that you need to carry all your traded games and get them to Essen in the first place.

- Request better item descriptions (3a-3f) and encourage people to ask for better item descriptions (3h). Please do actually describe your games instead of using generic empty phrases. While for one person "very good" means no noticeable wear whatsoever, someone else may still regard shelf wear, removed inlays, creased rules, etc. as "very good condition". Be specific. Some people may be okay with foreign language games if they get rules and card translations. For others it's a no-go to have a foreign language title on the cover even if the game itself is completely language independent.

- Clarified the deletion policy in some places (5a-5d). Please do delete obsolete items during the item submission period. Keep in mind that all other users spend time with your items by reading their descriptions, evaluating them, adding them to their want lists, etc. So it's only fair not to waste other people's time with items that are not available anymore.

- Made the general math trade meeting the default meeting place (7b).

- Made it clear that trades are supposed to happen on site at SPIEL during its opening hours (7c). Demanding that people collect their games at your hotel somewhere in Essen in the evening is not acceptable. Everyone still may agree to this, of course. However, the default expectation is that all participants bring their games to SPIEL.

- Suggested some kind of user identification procedures in case you don't consider strangers with printed BGG avatars trustworthy (7d).


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Jaap K
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Are we planning to meet at 12 every day in The Galleria again?
Yes we are
I missed the most important rule of reading all rules

I'm really looking forward to Spiel and trading again!
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Ellie
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The Essen Spiel 2015 math trade doesn't show up in OLWLG for me. Is anyone else having the same issue?
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Ben P.
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chaoticcalamity wrote:
The Essen Spiel 2015 math trade doesn't show up in OLWLG for me. Is anyone else having the same issue?
JeffyJeff has do some manual work to add it. This will take some time (usually a few hours to a few days).

You can already use OLWLG to copy items from previous trades:
http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/addmygames.cgi?listid=1948...

You need to be logged in to OLWLG for the link to work.
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Ellie
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cuazzel wrote:
chaoticcalamity wrote:
The Essen Spiel 2015 math trade doesn't show up in OLWLG for me. Is anyone else having the same issue?
JeffyJeff has do some manual work to add it. This will take some time (usually a few hours to a few days).

You can already use OLWLG to copy items from previous trades:
http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/addmygames.cgi?listid=1948...

You need to be logged in to OLWLG for the link to work.

Thanks!
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Christian Gienger
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cuazzel wrote:
chaoticcalamity wrote:
The Essen Spiel 2015 math trade doesn't show up in OLWLG for me. Is anyone else having the same issue?
JeffyJeff has do some manual work to add it. This will take some time (usually a few hours to a few days).

You can already use OLWLG to copy items from previous trades:
http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/addmygames.cgi?listid=1948...

You need to be logged in to OLWLG for the link to work.

Thanks, the same I was wondering. Will do that tomorrow.
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Ugur Dönmez
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I must also confess I only read the rules in detail after submitting my items. In regards to the condition, I don't agree that terms like good, very good are "empty, generic phrases". These are defined quite well in the BGG Marketplace and used there and in almost all math trades. Frankly I wouldn't know how else to describe the condition. I do agree that when there's something specific to be added there (copied rulebook, warped boards, etc.) that should indeed be added, and I had already done so where I saw the need.

And Benjamin, please regard the above as discussion rather than criticism. I very much appreciate the effort you put in every year to organize this math trade! thumbsup
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Christian Gienger
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Game Knight wrote:
I must also confess I only read the rules in detail after submitting my items. In regards to the condition, I don't agree that terms like good, very good are "empty, generic phrases". These are defined quite well in the BGG Marketplace and used there and in almost all math trades. Frankly I wouldn't know how else to describe the condition. I do agree that when there's something specific to be added there (copied rulebook, warped boards, etc.) that should indeed be added, and I had already done so where I saw the need.

And Benjamin, please regard the above as discussion rather than criticism. I very much appreciate the effort you put in every year to organize this math trade! thumbsup

While they are defined, I usually am interested if the very good to good (small wear and tear) is on the box only or if the components are looking played.
Also there have been several people calling their stuff in "excellent" condition.
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Ben P.
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Game Knight wrote:
I must also confess I only read the rules in detail after submitting my items. In regards to the condition, I don't agree that terms like good, very good are "empty, generic phrases". These are defined quite well in the BGG Marketplace and used there and in almost all math trades. Frankly I wouldn't know how else to describe the condition. I do agree that when there's something specific to be added there (copied rulebook, warped boards, etc.) that should indeed be added, and I had already done so where I saw the need.

And Benjamin, please regard the above as discussion rather than criticism. I very much appreciate the effort you put in every year to organize this math trade! :thumbsup:
No worries, I won't go and hunt down item descriptions that just say "very good" :) Its just that to 10 different people, a description like "very good" will probably mean 10 different things. Specifics are always more welcome.

The BGG marketplace descriptions are completely useless to me. They don't match my reality in any way which is why I would never refer to them. For example, according to the BGG policy, if a game has been played, it could be "Good" at best. I don't know how you guys handle your games but the games I played once or twice (or even 5 times) are usually in a way better condition than many "like new" games I ever received.

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Ben P.
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Locu wrote:
Also there have been several people calling their stuff in "excellent" condition.
That's what I do (followed by more elaboration, of course) because in my own rating system I have 5-6 different levels between BGG "Like New" (i.e. "just removed from shrink wrap") and BGG "Very Good" (i.e. "minimal wear and tear").
One of the most prominent examples is "opened and punched but never played". This can't be "like new" according to BGG because punched is definitely more than "just removed from shrink wrap" but it's also way better than "Very Good" because there absolutely is no "minimal wear and tear".
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Eddy Sterckx
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I follow both this mathtrade and the auction geeklist and noticed that the latter is growing at twice the pace of the mathtrade

Currently mathtrade : 561 games, auction : 1028 games

I distinctly remembered that last year the number of games on both lists was about equal - I double-checked and sure enough : mathtrade : 2549 games, auction : 2733 games

Have we reached the point where more gamers are thinking about downsizing their collection and are looking at selling their games instead of trading them ? Or is it too soon to jump to that conclusion ?
 
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Peter Csuka
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Many users are offering money on the math trade and usually lot of trades involve money-game kind of trades.
The problem is: that money is a good currency, everyone is interested in it. So I would rather trade my game for X€-s (Which I can use later for trade into ANY game) then trade my game for another game, which has limited interest for other people.
My suggestion would be to take out the money offers from math trades and try to encourage the game for game trades.
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Matthias Hartmann
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eddy_sterckx wrote:
I follow both this mathtrade and the auction geeklist and noticed that the latter is growing at twice the pace of the mathtrade

Currently mathtrade : 561 games, auction : 1028 games

I distinctly remembered that last year the number of games on both lists was about equal - I double-checked and sure enough : mathtrade : 2549 games, auction : 2733 games

Have we reached the point where more gamers are thinking about downsizing their collection and are looking at selling their games instead of trading them ? Or is it too soon to jump to that conclusion ?

I have a lot of offers on the auction, but they all end early enough to set not sold games into the math trade. Maybe there are more people doing that.

And I've always watched, that a lot of games are put into the math trade only a few days before the offering period ends. And we have still two weeks (exactly: 16 days) for offers.
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Felix Lampadius
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MyKrisse wrote:
I have a lot of offers on the auction, but they all end early enough to set not sold games into the math trade. Maybe there are more people doing that.

For example: me. I just like both options.
But to be honest: the Math Trade is a metagame itself and I love the tension until the results are revealed. If I had to choose I would prefer the Math Trade.
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Matthias Hartmann
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santafelis wrote:
MyKrisse wrote:
I have a lot of offers on the auction, but they all end early enough to set not sold games into the math trade. Maybe there are more people doing that.

For example: me. I just like both options.
But to be honest: the Math Trade is a metagame itself and I love the tension until the results are revealed. If I had to choose I would prefer the Math Trade.

Me too.

When I sell a game it's always money for a new one. But math trading isn't such a mundane thing like just offering games. Often I find games, im interested in, on the math trade and link them to my items even when I wouldn't buy them for money. And it's just exciting to watch all the items on the trade and hope for your favourites.

Thank you again, Ben, for organizing this.
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Janet Welch
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Last year I managed to set it up so if someone posted a comment on one of my offers I was alerted to it so I could respond quickly and I don't think I subscribed to all my own games!

Is there a quick way to do this that I have forgotten or am I just wishful thinking?

I am currently contemplating having to go through the list subscribing to my games and hoping someone can save me from that!
 
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nicidemas wrote:
Is there a quick way to do this that I have forgotten or am I just wishful thinking?
Just subscribe to your geeklist items.
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Matthias Hartmann
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nicidemas wrote:
Last year I managed to set it up so if someone posted a comment on one of my offers I was alerted to it so I could respond quickly and I don't think I subscribed to all my own games!

Is there a quick way to do this that I have forgotten or am I just wishful thinking?

I am currently contemplating having to go through the list subscribing to my games and hoping someone can save me from that!

Most of my Geeklist items are Trade offers, so I just check for comments on my Contributions (and then my Geeklist item list).

Here's a link to your list: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/items/user/nicidemas
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Janet Welch
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MyKrisse wrote:
nicidemas wrote:
Last year I managed to set it up so if someone posted a comment on one of my offers I was alerted to it so I could respond quickly and I don't think I subscribed to all my own games!

Is there a quick way to do this that I have forgotten or am I just wishful thinking?

I am currently contemplating having to go through the list subscribing to my games and hoping someone can save me from that!

Most of my Geeklist items are Trade offers, so I just check for comments on my Contributions (and then my Geeklist item list).

Here's a link to your list: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/items/user/nicidemas

That is the way I did it last year, Thank you!
 
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Yorick Heijink
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Math Trade newbie question!

I only really have one game I'm looking to trade away. When selecting stuff I want in the OLWLG I'm asked what game I'd like to trade for it. Obviously I only have the one option. Now here's the question:

How much should I keep the value of my game in my mind to stand a chance of trading? If my game is worth $20, should I even bother with games that are worth $40?

Am I right in assuming I can select as many games I want to trade for my one game and the algorithm will figure out a match?
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yorickh wrote:
How much should I keep the value of my game in my mind to stand a chance of trading? If my game is worth $20, should I even bother with games that are worth $40?
Sometimes you get lucky. Just add what you’d like to have

yorickh wrote:
Am I right in assuming I can select as many games I want to trade for my one game and the algorithm will figure out a match?
Yes. (will try to figure out a match - it’s by no means certain to trade your game)

The more games you’d be willing to accept for your game the higher your chances of getting rid of it.

btw: 3 questions
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Yorick Heijink
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yzemaze wrote:
btw: 3 questions
And thank you for providing answers to all of them Time to start adding games!
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Kerstin Willms
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Hi, I noticed that the numbers (positions) of the games have changed compared to a few days ago. The list with games offered is already quite long, so I go through a few pages one day and continue another day. Example: Last week "Versailles" had the entry number 543, now it is on position 530. That makes it very hard to track the games you are interested in. I always thought that if somebody takes an item off the list, it still appears in the list but with a remark (that it is no longer available).

And another question: can someone please post the link for the Essen auction geek list. Thanks a lot!
 
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Peter Csuka
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Zimtfisch wrote:
And another question: can someone please post the link for the Essen auction geek list. Thanks a lot!
https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/194495/essen-2015-no-ship...
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