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Vs System 2PCG: The Marvel Battles» Forums » News

Subject: DC? rss

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Jonathan Kinney
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i know the original VS system had a DC version, and was just curious if there are any plans here.

I'm kind of doubtful given that Crytozoic has the DC card game licences.

I have no interest in the Marvel Universe so if that's the case, I might be out of luck.
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Scott
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I hope they can borrow/share the license. Look at Batman Fluxx. I don't know the chances, but I don't think it's implausible.
 
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MGS
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Seems unlikely but would be a welcome surprise.

Thread probably doesn't belong in the News forum though.
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Gaming Yeti
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Time will tell. I think a lot balances on how well this sells and the type of support it gets for organized play. I would love to have DC again in Vs, but right now I think it will be a while.
 
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CPBelt
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They have avoided the topic. Cryptozoic has the license.
 
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The Rake
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I'm much more a Marvel fan but I enjoy DC as well. If VS is successful and there is money to be made then I would be surprised if we do not see DC at some point. If VS is a hit and it's being played everywhere and selling well then UD and Cryptozoic would be crazy not to discuss some sort of joint license. They will most likely release expansions based on the licenses they already have like Alien and Predator first.

Again I think it all depends on how successful VS turns out to be so get out there and buy a copy and get playing
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C. E. Freeman
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I wonder if VS is successful if it wouldn't be a case of UD being a better fit for the DC license and Cryptozoic losing it. Then DC could come to VS and Legendary. I would think that would be appealing to both DC and DC fans, as well as many fans of VS and Legendary.
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Tom
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Yeah DC would be GREAT for this game. I think that the only way that could be a remote possibility is if this game goes bonkers.

I don't think Cryptozoic is in danger of "losing" DC. Even though some critics are hard on it, DC Deck Building Game does well enough to release plenty of content.

That said, I don't think it would be in Cryptozoic's best interest to help another game company's game out.
 
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C. E. Freeman
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Maybe Cryptozoic keeps the license. If DCDBG is doing ok, just think how much better the license would be doing as VS and Legendary. I think there is little doubt way more would be sold.

Ultimately, I'm indifferent. I was just pointing out the manner in which I think DC could end up in VS.
 
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Jonathan Kinney
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Tacullu64 wrote:
I wonder if VS is successful if it wouldn't be a case of UD being a better fit for the DC license and Cryptozoic losing it. Then DC could come to VS and Legendary. I would think that would be appealing to both DC and DC fans, as well as many fans of VS and Legendary.

I have no interest in the Legendary system. I prefer Dc Deckbuilding for what it is. Legendary takes itself WAY too seriously. If I'm looking for quick setup, easy play, and scalable tactical depth the Cryptozoic system is more preferable. At my FLGS DC is played probably 15-20 times a day...Legendary may one or twice a week.
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C. E. Freeman
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jonocop wrote:
Tacullu64 wrote:
I wonder if VS is successful if it wouldn't be a case of UD being a better fit for the DC license and Cryptozoic losing it. Then DC could come to VS and Legendary. I would think that would be appealing to both DC and DC fans, as well as many fans of VS and Legendary.

I have no interest in the Legendary system. I prefer Dc Deckbuilding for what it is. Legendary takes itself WAY too seriously. If I'm looking for quick setup, easy play, and scalable tactical depth the Cryptozoic system is more preferable. At my FLGS DC is played probably 15-20 times a day...Legendary may one or twice a week.

DCDBG has no tactical depth or theme, at least not that I can find. It feels like a simple math problem, which is basically what it is, what all deck builders are. Others just hide it better and make you feel like you're playing a game not doing simple addition and subtraction.

When I cleaned out my closet a couple years ago I tried to give DCDBD to a home that would appreciate it. I couldn't give it away, that's how popular it is in my area. No one wanted it for free, yet Legendary does quite well.

That's just our personal opinions and anecdotal evidence. If you look at the statistics on BGG, users owning, number of users rating, and the actual ratings themselves, you will see that Legendary is doing way better. Now, toss in sales from VS, and it would seem to be an easy decision on how to sell the most DC games. That is why I thought it would be a good fit for DC. However, I would hope that DC would use more data than what they can garner from these forums when making their decision.

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Scott
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Both games are doing fine. I'd be delighted with a license sharing agreement. Cap in DCDBG and Bats in Legendary and VS. The reality of that possibility? Who knows.
 
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Tom
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Tacullu64 wrote:


Maybe Cryptozoic keeps the license. If DCDBG is doing ok, just think how much better the license would be doing as VS and Legendary. I think there is little doubt way more would be sold.

Ultimately, I'm indifferent. I was just pointing out the manner in which I think DC could end up in VS.

I still doubt Cryptozoic would be OK with promoting Upper Deck games. If they make a DC legendary it would only hurt Cryptozoic in the long run.

That said. I think people need to understand that DC may NEVER come into this Vs game...NEVER. So if you are buying this thinking it will come, you will be disappointed. Which is a shame as having DC would make this game go to another level. (not because of DC but because of DC and Marvel and Alien and Predator and Firefly etc etc)

Now time to derail.
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DCDBG has no tactical depth or theme.

This I disagree with. Almost every card has theme. Flash going first. Ra's Al Ghul going to the bottom of your deck instead of your discard. Robin letting you take an equipment from your discard. The list goes on. As for tactics there is not much depth but enough for it being a lighter game which is how the game was designed. Knocking it for that is like criticizing Ticket to Ride for not have space ships or zombies.

In Legendary none of the heroes will lift a finger until you pay them. I mean imagine Captain America standing on a street corner watching events unfold telling people if they want him to help they have to pay him first. Or Hulk not smashing without some compensation first. If you can get past that you can have a deeper mechanical experience. Note I said mechanical (which is A OK with me BTW). As the individual cards themselves are not very thematic. Just Repulsor Rays... +2 power, plus 1 more if you played another ranged card. Which is mechanically fun, but theme kind of meh. That could just as easily any other hero with a ranged focus.

I have both games and all of the content for each, they scratch different itches. These games only get compared because they are both comic book licenses, not because of the games themselves which both stand on their own. Both perfectly fine games.
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Richard Linnell
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Does the same parent company own both Cryptozoic and Wizkids? Dicemasters has both DC and Marvel, so it seems that someone must be willing to share licenses, or that the licenses are not exclusive....
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C. E. Freeman
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solidhavok wrote:
Does the same parent company own both Cryptozoic and Wizkids? Dicemasters has both DC and Marvel, so it seems that someone must be willing to share licenses, or that the licenses are not exclusive....

I'm not a lawyer nor have I seen any of the contracts, but I believe companies buy the license to use it for specific purposes. One company might have it for miniatures or dice games, another might have it for board games, and another company might have the license to produce card games.
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Jared Voshall
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Let me start by saying I've never understood the whole Rights thing... As the original creator, why would you want to limit the number of potential streams of revenue, rather than approving the rights on a per-project basis, giving more exposure for the base item while at the same time maximizing the number of good revenue streams?

Personally, I would love to see both Marvel and DC share the Legendary/VS limelight, particularly as I see them as being superior games IMO (then again, I've always liked a touch more complexity in my card games).

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YourHero wrote:
Quote:
DCDBG has no tactical depth or theme.

This I disagree with. Almost every card has theme. Flash going first. Ra's Al Ghul going to the bottom of your deck instead of your discard. Robin letting you take an equipment from your discard. The list goes on. As for tactics there is not much depth but enough for it being a lighter game which is how the game was designed. Knocking it for that is like criticizing Ticket to Ride for not have space ships or zombies.

In Legendary none of the heroes will lift a finger until you pay them. I mean imagine Captain America standing on a street corner watching events unfold telling people if they want him to help they have to pay him first. Or Hulk not smashing without some compensation first. If you can get past that you can have a deeper mechanical experience. Note I said mechanical (which is A OK with me BTW). As the individual cards themselves are not very thematic. Just Repulsor Rays... +2 power, plus 1 more if you played another ranged card. Which is mechanically fun, but theme kind of meh. That could just as easily any other hero with a ranged focus.

I have both games and all of the content for each, they scratch different itches. These games only get compared because they are both comic book licenses, not because of the games themselves which both stand on their own. Both perfectly fine games.

While the cards do have a touch more theme to them than the Legendary cards do (and I do wish they'd bring over the Class idea from Encounters, or even just copy the idea from Cryptozoic's DBGs), I do feel that the theme is stronger with the Legendary brand. In the CDBGs, you're racing against the other players to take out the bad guys and accumulate stuff in your deck to get points. While the cards may fit the characters they go with, you're generally going for the highest cost card because that gives you the biggest boost. And, thematically... You defeat the villains, and they start working for you? It takes the same skill to build a belt (Equipment), recruit another hero (or yourself!) (Allies), and defeat a Villain (Villains/Supervillains)? These break my immersion in the game, and leave me feeling like I'm playing a game, not pulling together a force of heroes to save the day.

With Legendary, while the cards may not be good fits for the characters (though their overall theme is intact if you look at their card pool as a whole), you have the Scheme and the Mastermind, which both really change how the game is played - and, to a degree, what kinds of heroes are well suited to go against them. If you're up against Magneto, you want to have some X-Men along to deal with him and the Brotherhood of Mutants, whereas Wolverine, Colossus, and the Hulk are best suited for high-health opponents who can deal out a lot of wounds (like, say, Carnage).

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C. E. Freeman
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Magius wrote:
Let me start by saying I've never understood the whole Rights thing... As the original creator, why would you want to limit the number of potential streams of revenue, rather than approving the rights on a per-project basis, giving more exposure for the base item while at the same time maximizing the number of good revenue streams?

The creator may very well want to sell the license to multiple companies. I think the companies that buy them want the exclusive rights. If UD pays a pretty penny up front to make Marvel card games and then a residual for each product they make I would think they would want some assurances that they won't have any competition in the Marvel card game market so they can make their money back and a profit. Competition could hurt their chances.
 
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Joel Eddy
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I still say I would throw some money at a Kickstarter that was just to lease whatever rights are required for there to be some sets of DC Universe Vs.
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David Hammel
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I would be completely fine if DCDBG died a horrible death and Upper Deck had rights to make DC Legendary and VS 2PCG. But I don't think it will happen. I am also not sure how the exclusivity works in this situation; Wizkids is obviously making Batman / Justice League board games and Dice Masters. I suppose Cryptozoic has exclusive rights to DC card games? Hopefully not.
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Tom
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Magius wrote:
Let me start by saying I've never understood the whole Rights thing... As the original creator, why would you want to limit the number of potential streams of revenue, rather than approving the rights on a per-project basis, giving more exposure for the base item while at the same time maximizing the number of good revenue streams?

Personally, I would love to see both Marvel and DC share the Legendary/VS limelight, particularly as I see them as being superior games IMO (then again, I've always liked a touch more complexity in my card games).
I think the exclusivity thing is to protect the company paying for the license. I don't think any company would want to pay for such limited rights, and set themselves up for so much competition. Which I think the deal for creators is focused on the quality of the revenue stream rather than the quantity.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Quote:
While the cards do have a touch more theme to them than the Legendary cards do (and I do wish they'd bring over the Class idea from Encounters, or even just copy the idea from Cryptozoic's DBGs), I do feel that the theme is stronger with the Legendary brand. In the CDBGs, you're racing against the other players to take out the bad guys and accumulate stuff in your deck to get points. While the cards may fit the characters they go with, you're generally going for the highest cost card because that gives you the biggest boost. And, thematically... You defeat the villains, and they start working for you? It takes the same skill to build a belt (Equipment), recruit another hero (or yourself!) (Allies), and defeat a Villain (Villains/Supervillains)? These break my immersion in the game, and leave me feeling like I'm playing a game, not pulling together a force of heroes to save the day.

With Legendary, while the cards may not be good fits for the characters (though their overall theme is intact if you look at their card pool as a whole), you have the Scheme and the Mastermind, which both really change how the game is played - and, to a degree, what kinds of heroes are well suited to go against them. If you're up against Magneto, you want to have some X-Men along to deal with him and the Brotherhood of Mutants, whereas Wolverine, Colossus, and the Hulk are best suited for high-health opponents who can deal out a lot of wounds (like, say, Carnage).

With the internet we have been able to experience almost a century of comics from all the brands (not just the big two). In that time we have seen almost everything. Villains and heroes working together (civil war), heroes becoming villains (irredeemable), etc. Going through a normal comic story is OK for me, but I have experienced that, it's old news.

So in DCDBG (and Legendary if I mix villains) I get to experience almost an infinite number of possibilities where heroes and villains don't really matter, just the experience you have.

IMO Legendary does a better job of that over arching story. IMO DCDBG let me make my own story. Two different weight games in the game genre, each evoke different things (for me).
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Nathaniel Yamaguchi
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YourHero wrote:
So in DCDBG (and Legendary if I mix villains) I get to experience almost an infinite number of possibilities where heroes and villains don't really matter, just the experience you have.

IMO DCDBG let me make my own story.

Someone gets it.
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Carl Li
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Ideally, I think it should be ok to have DC at VS., but maybe not for Legendary, since both are Deck Builders, whereas, VS. is not.

Either way, it's not likely that I'm getting VS. if DC isn't involved.
 
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Carl Li
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Also, maybe Cryptozoic is developing their own Living Card Game? They also have many licenses such as Ghost Busters, Attack on Titan, Naruto, Street Fighter, Capcom, Adventure Time, Cartoon Network, Boom Studios, Portal, Penny Dreadful, Walking Dead, Supernatural, Arrow, Lord of the Rings, Assassin's Creed, etc!
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Richard Linnell
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theLyght4 wrote:
Also, maybe Cryptozoic is developing their own Living Card Game? They also have many licenses such as Ghost Busters, Attack on Titan, Naruto, Street Fighter, Capcom, Adventure Time, Cartoon Network, Boom Studios, Portal, Penny Dreadful, Walking Dead, Supernatural, Arrow, Lord of the Rings, Assassin's Creed, etc!

Cruising through Miniature Market's upcoming listings, I noted entries for a Middle Earth Expandable Card Game by Cryptozoic - wonder how that plays vs. FFG's LotR LCG and the license they have. I think maybe Crypto has the license for the movies, and FFG has the license for the books....

Anyhow, it seems to be evidence that Crypto is going to at least test the LCG/ECG/2PCG/etc. market.
 
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J Brenner
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CPBelt wrote:
They have avoided the topic. Cryptozoic has the license.

We have in fact not "Avoided" the issue. I have answered the question every time it has been brought up. We do not have a DC license so we cannot add in DC content.

That said, we will be adding in content for Alien, Predator, Firefly, The Crow, Bring Out Yer Dead, etc.
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