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Subject: Glory III or ASLSK#1? rss

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Paul Martz
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Hello there fellow wargamers.

I am thinking about learning a new game solitaire this weekend and am having trouble deciding between two very different games: Glory III or ASLSK#1.

Glory III
pros: chit pull and Cedar Creek (which I know basically nothing about)

cons: probably won't be able to finish a battle before I have to tear it down (cats/ end of weekend depending on where i set it up).


ASLSK#1
pros: will be able to finish one or more scenarios, intro to a system of which I have a number of old AH modules (Beyond Valor, Yanks, Paratrooper, Hollow Legions, Last Hurrah, Partisan, and possibly one or two others)

cons: tactical sometimes doesn't do it for me, last time I tried ASL I got really frustrated.

Any thoughts?


Edit: fixed the title

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J B
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The ASL community has tournaments and dedicated clubs. That really adds a new dimension to it if you want to expand from solitaire play. In addition, there are probably more that play it via VASSAL as well.
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Jason Cawley
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Go with Glory III. It plays fast, chit pull works great solitaire, and the opening of fights is interesting enough, even if you don't finish a battle. You will see enough to want to try something different next time you get it on the table.

One man's opinion...
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Tom Willcockson
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ASLSK. Have both and although Glory III is a good game, SK1 is going to have much more replay value. Think the rules length are about the same since SK1 is just infantry. Also the SK scenarios are going to play much faster require less set up, much smaller table footprint & much larger player community.
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JP Laurio
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I have never played Glory III, but I would still like to suggest ASLSK#1. Was it the full ASL you tried last time and got frustrated with? SK#1 will be much easier to grasp, even though it's still a handful.

If you decide to give SK#1 a try, be sure to use this document on your road to learning the system, as it will make it much easier:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/40482/jay-richardsons-asl...

Also, don't hesitate to ask any questions in the game's forums, there's always people around happy to help new players getting on board.

Good luck!

Edit: Typo
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Alan Sutton
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Glory III is cool, if you like the period. I don't particularly but my regular ftf opponent does so we play these games. I like them. He is sucking me in to the period.

Your other choice flirts with the ASL universe (and a completely different period so we are at risk of the apples and oranges syndrome here). If you dip your toe into ASL be prepared to never come back to the rest of wargamedom.

Wargames are a niche activity, ASL is a niche within a niche.

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Gordon Watson
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ASL - other tactical wargames call it Sir.
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Moruya23 wrote:
Wargames are a niche activity, ASL is a niche within a niche.
I disagree with this - at only 12 pages of rules the ASLSK is not an exclusive game - even full ASL is not all or nothing unless you want to play at tournament level.

Back on topic, I haven't played Glory III so can't compare but there is huge amounts of gameplay/fun to be had with ASLSK.
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Alan Sutton
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domus_ludorum wrote:
Moruya23 wrote:
Wargames are a niche activity, ASL is a niche within a niche.
I disagree with this - at only 12 pages of rules the ASLSK is not an exclusive game - even full ASL is not all or nothing unless you want to play at tournament level.

Back on topic, I haven't played Glory III so can't compare but there is huge amounts of gameplay/fun to be had with ASLSK.

I did not say ASl or ASLSK is an exclusive game. I said it was a niche within a niche. Which it is.

Also, back on topic, you haven't played Glory III so you can't compare:

You said it.



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Jason Cawley
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To some of the other commentators - he saud for one session, solitaire, this weekend. He didn't ask which game system to get into for the next year...
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Cracky McCracken
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Own and like both. Work on Glory 3. It has a very short intro scenario covering the final moments of Antietam.

Than you should have time to keep going with the bigger scenarios or give ASLsk a shot.

Glory will never touch the replay value of ASL, but it is a good intro to the bigger Berg style wargames.
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JP Laurio
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JasonC wrote:
To some of the other commentators - he saud for one session, solitaire, this weekend. He didn't ask which game system to get into for the next year...
Well, true, but then he also mentioned all those ASL modules. Can't do much else than admire the box cover art on all those during one weekend...
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Paul Martz
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norev wrote:
JasonC wrote:
To some of the other commentators - he saud for one session, solitaire, this weekend. He didn't ask which game system to get into for the next year...
Well, true, but then he also mentioned all those ASL modules. Can't do much else than admire the box cover art on all those during one weekend...

Which I have done more than once...
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Carl Paradis
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Glory III, hands down. Especially since you already have many ASL games. Try something different, you won't be disappointed, the Glory system is one of Mr.Berg's best designs moments.
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Øivind Karlsrud
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ASL SK #1 is a really good way to start learning ASL, if you want to eventually get some value for the money you've spent on ASL already. From there it's a small step to full ASL infantry-only. It's so much easier to learn the rest when you have learned the basics.

If Glory III is chit-pull, it might be better solo, though.
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Carl Paradis
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oivind22 wrote:
ASL SK #1 is a really good way to start learning ASL, if you want to eventually get some value for the money you've spent on ASL already. From there it's a small step to full ASL infantry-only. It's so much easier to learn the rest when you have learned the basics.

If Glory III is chit-pull, it might be better solo, though.

From what I read in the first post, he already has quite a lot of old Avalon Hill ASL games in his collection, so I would be very surprised if it was a learniong experience. Right?
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Allen Dickerson
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Go for Glory III. Opt for Antietam, a momentous Civil War battle. Good system, and the chit pull mechanics provide great drama and ensure no battle plays out the same way twice.

Second, and just as important: get VASSAL www.vassalengine.org (it's FREE!) and download the Glory III module. You'll be able to play as slowly, and over as long a period of time as you need, with no regard for table space or feline intervention (that is, provided your cats won't knock your computer onto the floor and kill the hard drive!!)... and if you haven't punched Glory III yet, you'll still have an unpunched collector's copy!
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Eric Walters
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"...the art of manoeuvering armies...an art which none may master by the light of nature. but to which, if he is to attain success, a man must serve a long apprenticeship." -- G.F.R. Henderson
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Both game titles (and the series they are a part of) are worth playing and worth owning. Let's look at each in turn.

Glory III: Not only is this title terrific in its own right, the other games in the Glory Series are pretty good if you find the system to scratch your tactical American Civil War battle itches. As old as these titles are, they are still pretty darned good. Best of all, they are relatively easy to learn and pretty exciting to play, especially given the chit-pull mechanic. There's really nothing else that compares to this series in terms of accessibility, replayability, solitaire suitability, and speed of play while still maintaining a strong sense of the history behind each battle.

That said, it's not clear what else is coming in this particular series. So if the "series" aspect of a series game is what is most important to you, then be aware of that limitation. I think personally that it's a small consideration as these games are so much fun and -- really -- what else is out there like this? The closest competitor used to be the old West End games on South Mountain, The Battle of Shiloh, and Chickamauga--also done by Richard Berg with Jon Southard--that Decision Games rolled up into War of the Rebellion package. That was pretty decent in it's day but time (and this series) have passed those games by.

Regarding Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1, whatever frustrating experience you had with full ASL, forget about it when contemplating this particular version. This is ASL stripped down...WAY down. I'd argue it's even simpler than the old Avalon Hill Squad Leader infantry system and is even more exciting. Best of all, the scenarios are pretty decent. Here's an overview of the game and the scenarios:

http://wargame.wikia.com/wiki/Advanced_Squad_Leader_Starter_...

From a series perspective, Multi-Man Publishing realized that this is more than just a stepping stone to the full ASL experience--it's a series in its own right and they have decided to support it as such. So you have additional starter kits covering on-board artillery and ordnance (Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #2), and tanks (Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #3. But here's another thing most don't understand, especially when trying to compare these to ASL. Each one of these stands alone--you don't need any of the earlier games to play it. It's just that the rulebooks add more stuff, but there's always at least one infantry-only scenario in the box so you can start from the beginning. This is also true of other expansions, such as Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit Expansion Pack #1 (a complete misnomer as it contains everything you need to play in the box) and the first "Historical" ASLSK title (which contains a campaign game!), Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit Historical Module 1 – Decision at Elst.

The first starter kit is pretty cheap and very exciting--if you don't like it, you won't like what comes after it and you might then want to sell/auction your other older ASL stuff. You won't have any problem reselling Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1 since there are always guys like me on the look out for used copies to GIVE to fledgling squad leader players to encourage them!

Don't think you will go wrong with either choice you make!
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Paul Martz
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licinius wrote:
oivind22 wrote:
ASL SK #1 is a really good way to start learning ASL, if you want to eventually get some value for the money you've spent on ASL already. From there it's a small step to full ASL infantry-only. It's so much easier to learn the rest when you have learned the basics.

If Glory III is chit-pull, it might be better solo, though.

From what I read in the first post, he already has quite a lot of old Avalon Hill ASL games in his collection, so I would be very surprised if it was a learniong experience. Right?

Nope. I would be learning. Haven't tried to play ASL in maybe 20 years.
 
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Paul Martz
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Thanks for all the replies. I knew this forum wouldn't let me down.

I sat down to finish punching Glory III (I got it partially punched) and was distracted by Star Trek: Enterprise. Oh well, maybe next weekend!
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