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Subject: Overall scope/goal of the game rss

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wulung chuanfa
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So I have read a bunch of the designer's blog posts and watched some videos and am becoming more and more excited about an intrigued by this game. I am still a little unclear on the overall story and goal of the game? Is there some final objective one is working toward? Is the goal to develop a character up to a maximal level of experience etc.?

I know many people like long campaigns and I understand the appeal of that, but also find it great to just bust out a game and play a single "one off" adventure whenever I want and not worry about keeping track of a lot of things. A game that can do both (which it sounds like Gloomhaven is shooting for) would be great!!




Michael
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Laura Blachek
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What i got out of the descriptions is that each character has an overall goal they are aiming for ( beyond the scenario objectives)... After a number of playthroughs if you character raxhes their goalthey will 'retire', perhaps unlocking another character that could be playable. After a character 'retires' you could start a new character and do something else...

What i am curious about is if this would allow sessions with different people, perhaps simulating an adventurer who goes adventuring with different people over the course of a year... For instance, perhaps when playing with my husband we go beat up bandits and when we go adventuring on a game night a cleric controlled by a friend comes along and we go searching for undead.

The vidoes from gencon were nice for showing how the game plays during a single session, but i am curious how the world building aspect works...
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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slaybalj wrote:
What i got out of the descriptions is that each character has an overall goal they are aiming for ( beyond the scenario objectives)... After a number of playthroughs if you character raxhes their goalthey will 'retire', perhaps unlocking another character that could be playable. After a character 'retires' you could start a new character and do something else...

What i am curious about is if this would allow sessions with different people, perhaps simulating an adventurer who goes adventuring with different people over the course of a year... For instance, perhaps when playing with my husband we go beat up bandits and when we go adventuring on a game night a cleric controlled by a friend comes along and we go searching for undead.

The vidoes from gencon were nice for showing how the game plays during a single session, but i am curious how the world building aspect works...


What I'm worried about is that, for example, you reach level 5, finish your quest, are forced to retire and then you have to start over with a level 1 character while other players and monsters are higher level.
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Laura Blachek
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Floating World wrote:
slaybalj wrote:
What i got out of the descriptions is that each character has an overall goal they are aiming for ( beyond the scenario objectives)... After a number of playthroughs if you character raxhes their goalthey will 'retire', perhaps unlocking another character that could be playable. After a character 'retires' you could start a new character and do something else...

What i am curious about is if this would allow sessions with different people, perhaps simulating an adventurer who goes adventuring with different people over the course of a year... For instance, perhaps when playing with my husband we go beat up bandits and when we go adventuring on a game night a cleric controlled by a friend comes along and we go searching for undead.

The vidoes from gencon were nice for showing how the game plays during a single session, but i am curious how the world building aspect works...


What I'm worried about is that, for example, you reach level 5, finish your quest, are forced to retire and then you have to start over with a level 1 character while other players and monsters are higher level.


I would think there would have to be some perennial dungeons that have easier monsters that a lower level character could take on.this wouldnt 'solve' the problem of adventuring with higher level companions, but it would allow for a weaker adventurer to build up exp and buy better equipment...

Perhaps a handicap system for high level adventurers? Maybe remove a few cards from play for the duration of a session? They would have to rest more frequently and would get exhausted quicker.
 
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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slaybalj wrote:
I would think there would have to be some perennial dungeons that have easier monsters that a lower level character could take on.this wouldnt 'solve' the problem of adventuring with higher level companions, but it would allow for a weaker adventurer to build up exp and buy better equipment...

Perhaps a handicap system for high level adventurers? Maybe remove a few cards from play for the duration of a session? They would have to rest more frequently and would get exhausted quicker.


I would rather the character retirement be optional or you continue with the previous character's relatives, where you would essentially level up classes. If you just lose your character it would seem you are punished for completing your main quest, not rewarded.
 
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Dan Licata
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Floating World wrote:

What I'm worried about is that, for example, you reach level 5, finish your quest, are forced to retire and then you have to start over with a level 1 character while other players and monsters are higher level.


When news of this first came out the idea was that the entire town leveled with you, so that when your character retires you get a new character at the same level as the town itself, thus preventing you from starting over with a low level character with everyone else much higher.

I haven't playtested at all so I'm not 100% sure this stuck around.
 
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wulung chuanfa
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From what I read I got the impression that the individual goals for the character were drawn at the start of each dungeon/adventure in addition to what the group goal for the dungeon is and some of them may be benefits for things that are in the best interest of the party and others may not be (for example being the only character left standing etc.) Some might be benefits that encourage reckless behavior like a benefit rewarding finishing a dungeon chapter/adventure with a small amount of hit points. As a solo player that presents a small amount of hidden information that might be problematic if I am required to play multiple characters, but imagine that I would just see how the game progresses and get the reward that seems the best overall and/or likely to achieve.

I read in the designer's blog and in the videos that the monsters level up with the heroes. I also remembering reading somewhere that once you complete a dungeon other dungeon choices are "unlocked" and each choice creates different dungeons that are unlocked. I believe I read that you could play any of the unlocked parts of the world as a one off adventure outside of a campaign and/or start a new campaign in those unlocked dungeons with new characters and or new players, but got the impression that you would start over from an experience perspective and the MONSTERS NOT THE DUNGEON are what levels in response to the level of the heroes. So it does sound like if you were playing a campaign and wanted to add a new character or player you would have to start a new campaign with them or contrive some way to bring the new character up to everyone else's experience level.


I am guessing perhaps the monsters level up to the average experience level of the group? Or do they level up whenever the first hero in the party levels up? If it is an average that would be a potential way to add in new heroes/ characters but would probably be some balance issues with some super powered heroes, very weak heroes and medium powered monsters in that case...

In terms of unlocking new characters I thought there were just the 4: brute, tinker, spell weaver and the rogue like character... are those just classes and you could have multiple characters using those classes?


Take care,


Michael
 
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Tyler Franklin
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michael4928 wrote:

In terms of unlocking new characters I thought there were just the 4: brute, tinker, spell weaver and the rogue like character... are those just classes and you could have multiple characters using those classes?


Take care,


Michael


I think those are just the ones he's announced so far. If I remember correctly, way back when Issac first started talking about Gloomhaven, he said he was planning on having a dozen or so different classes in the game, but they would be gated (you had to unlock certain objectives or beat certain dungeons or something to gain access to them). I'm not sure if that's still his plan or not, though. Hopefully the man himself will chime up and set us all straight.
 
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Isaac Childres
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All right, so first of all, to answer the original questions, there is a sort of main quest line to the game - something you could finish to earn a sense of completion if you're into that sort of thing. You could think of it a little bit like an Elder Scrolls game, where there is a primary goal, but there is also lots of other stuff to do if you are willing to take the time and pull on other plot threads.

And in the similar sense to an Elder Scrolls game, the game becomes what you make of it. You can tool around and focus on creating a powerful character. You can go through the main quest line and be done with it. You can take the time to unlock every last thing there is to unlock.

And, like, Michael said, there is always the option to just sit down with it for an hour or two and have fun killing monsters without worry about the campaign.

As far as leveling up characters and the town itself, there is a "career goal" system for retiring characters and unlocking new ones. And it is mandatory to retire your character once they achieve their career goal. It is important thematically for the campaign that each character has a story hook. Like I said, though, you can always play outside the campaign if you don't want to be beholden to that system for whatever reason.

But anyway, how the leveling works is that, while playing in the campaign, the town will gain "prosperity" and level at a lower rate than the players. Starting at around character level 4 or 5, players will start achieving their career goals. The town would probably be level 2, maybe 3 at that point, so a player would retire their character and bring in a new one at the level of the town, typically 2-3 levels lower than the characters who have yet to retire.

Ultimately an important point to remember is that the disparity in power between levels is not that great. Going from level 1 to 2, it's not like you double in power or anything. You gain 1 or 2 more hit points, switch out one card in your deck for a slightly better one and make a small adjustment to your attack modifier deck.

Additionally the monsters in a scenario scale to the average level of the party. In play tests, lower level characters haven't felt significantly under-powered when playing with higher level characters. They have been able to hold their own in battle.

And, just to clarify, there are 4 starting classes, but there will be at least a dozen total in the game (you can read about a couple in the image gallery). The others will be unlocked by completing career goals or other objectives during the game.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys on this. Let me know if anything is still unclear.
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Tyler Franklin
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Thanks so much for clearing all that up, Isaac!
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wulung chuanfa
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Thanks Isaac, that sounds great! I appreciate you actively answering our questions. Sounds like a lot of replay value is going to be built in! So to clarify, if I wanted to just play a quick one off dungeon adventure unrelated to the campaign I could create a new character and play in an unlocked dungeon with monsters based on my new level OR take an existing character(s) and the monster would scale to them as well?


Take care,

Michael
 
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Isaac Childres
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michael4928 wrote:
Thanks Isaac, that sounds great! I appreciate you actively answering our questions. Sounds like a lot of replay value is going to be built in! So to clarify, if I wanted to just play a quick one off dungeon adventure unrelated to the campaign I could create a new character and play in an unlocked dungeon with monsters based on my new level OR take an existing character(s) and the monster would scale to them as well?


Take care,

Michael

Yes, any scenario that has been unlocked can be played outside of the campaign with whatever group of characters you want. Recommended monster level will be based on the average level of the party, but you can always adjust that to make things easier or harder. And you can create as many different characters you want (though if you make too many of any one class, you may have to start photocopying their character sheet). If the character is playing within the campaign, though, they should have a career goal.
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wulung chuanfa
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Thanks Isaac! Also, if you are able to, could you give us a basic idea of what a "career goal" might look like?



Take care,


Michael
 
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John Gonzalez
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Really wish I were playing this game right now.
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Those are some mighty ambitious ideas. If this game actually pulls it off, it'll be amazing!
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Isaac Childres
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michael4928 wrote:
Thanks Isaac! Also, if you are able to, could you give us a basic idea of what a "career goal" might look like?



Take care,


Michael

I'll go into this with more detail next week with pictures, but some examples of career goals would be:

Kill a specific type of enemy a certain number of times
Find a specific location and complete a special scenario at that location
Collect a certain amount of money or a certain number of items
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John Gonzalez
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What does the player gain by achieving a character's career goal and retiring him/her?
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Isaac Childres
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Accomplishing a career goal is pretty much your character winning the game. They've finished what they set out to do. So you've got that sense of accomplishment and also you get to unlock a new character class to play with.
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Dennis Schwarz
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So, if a character fulfils their career goal, they are content with what they have accomplished and settle down, retiring from adventure - I understand that.

You mentioned elsewhere, I think, that, if a player so chooses, they could maybe play a character longer than fulfilling their career goal.

Is this possible as is or would this require some house rulings to make this possible? The main question for this would be, I guess, if it is possible for a character to level up more after reaching their career goal.
Also what is the mechanical end of leveling up in the game (the highest level a character can reach) and would it be a problem balance-wise, if a character reached that?

Storywise, I would think it is quite sound if a character sets out to fulfill their personal goal and teams up with others to do just that, but that later they become so attached to the group itself that they want to see this through until the end to fulfil the greater goal - the campaign goal.
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Will we ever see the retired character again or will there be any world building related to a retired character? For instance, would the brute open a weapons shop after he retires or the tinkerer open a school where future characters can go to get quests?
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slaybalj wrote:
Will we ever see the retired character again or will there be any world building related to a retired character? For instance, would the brute open a weapons shop after he retires or the tinkerer open a school where future characters can go to get quests?

The ideal thing, I think, would be a familial connection between you retired character and your new character (i.e. the new character is the son/daughter of the retired character, and gets to have one item as an heirloom from their retired parent, or maybe one free 'level up' showing what their parent had taught them, or some such).
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Daniel Nedeljkovic
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rahdo wrote:
slaybalj wrote:
Will we ever see the retired character again or will there be any world building related to a retired character? For instance, would the brute open a weapons shop after he retires or the tinkerer open a school where future characters can go to get quests?

The ideal thing, I think, would be a familial connection between you retired character and your new character (i.e. the new character is the son/daughter of the retired character, and gets to have one item as an heirloom from their retired parent, or maybe one free 'level up' showing what their parent had taught them, or some such).


Hey, don't steal other people's ideas!!!
 
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Isaac Childres
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Once a character fulfills their career goal, they really should be put back in the box, but I don't see any harm in having them available for non-campaign "one-off" play.

The character classes unlocked are tied thematically to the career goal that unlocks them. For instance, after destroying a particular group of bandits terrorizing the inhabitants of a forest, a hunter class from that forest might show up in town to start adventuring. Or if your goal is to prove your prowess in battle, a bard class might show up afterwards to sing your praises.

I do like the idea of passing on some items or something from one character to the next, though, and it does makes some sense thematically in this context.
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Thomas King
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Is there any reason you can't "restart" a retired character mid-campaign if you want to keep using them?
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Ukko Kaarto
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Montag451 wrote:
Is there any reason you can't "restart" a retired character mid-campaign if you want to keep using them?


We've definitely seen this in fiction over and over again. The legendary warrior saves the world and afterwards goes on a drinking spree just to start from the scratch in the beginning of the next movie/book/comic/game.
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