Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Space Hulk: Death Angel – The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: Too hard, with a runaway loser problem rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
F H
United Kingdom
UK
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've just pulled this off the shelf and thinking about it again.

My problem with this, is that once again the baddest-assiest-walkingiest-killing-machinyest people in the known universe...play like slow-ass- stupid-robots. Nearly every board game or computer game (and that demon-awful film) featuring space marines makes them appear slow, crap at shooting, and generally useless.

I know the story, I know they're fighting the the worst most terrifying blah blah blah. That however does not excuse the slow useless appearance they give off. I should be plucking a handful of defeated enemies off the board with every shot!

In this game, how many times has the swarm grown to 5+ at which point you might as well stop playing, they're going to go down your line of marines killing them one at a time. You face this massive swarm of targets, filling the room there's so many of them, and still you only hit on three sides of the die. Yurgh. So much for being a killing machine.

How about you kill the "number" shown on the die? Too easy?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Bush
United States
West Decatur
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
At all cost
badge
"Some fights will just get you bloody"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Way too easy, considering that is some special abilities.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fernando Robert Yu
Philippines
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The game is indeed hard, but its definitely not TOO hard. And the Heavy Flamer is an excellent weapon against large swarms...do not underestimate support tokens too since those rerolls can definitely save the day..Support tokens on doors also act like instakills too.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
F H
United Kingdom
UK
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Too easy or not, something needs to be done to make them seem bad-ass instead of sorry-ass.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
F H
United Kingdom
UK
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I mean there are Storm Troopers out there laughing at the shooting skills of these marines!
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron White
Australia
Bathurst
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Bennett from Brawl
badge
Slow and Thoughtful
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I often think about this from two perspectives. One is that the marines are not fighting in an open field, but down corridors that allow cover for the Genestealers. I also consider that even though Terminator Blood Angels are bad ass, so are Genestealers. They are fast, intelligent and can peel back steel like no one else.

I do agree that even though there are special abilities, the standard storm bolter marine is mostly good for activating doors and taking the fall for specialised marines. You would think after X number of missions where storm bolter marines all die, they would just drop the storm bolter all together and give everyone specialist equipment.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Bush
United States
West Decatur
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
At all cost
badge
"Some fights will just get you bloody"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Another way to think of it is as religious zealots without ied's. Probably have the same skills minus genetic mutations to look oversized and scary in armor.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Vermilion
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FNH1 wrote:
I've just pulled this off the shelf and thinking about it again.

My problem with this, is that once again the baddest-assiest-walkingiest-killing-machinyest people in the known universe...play like slow-ass- stupid-robots.


No, that's just how much more bad-ass the Genestealers are.

-zombie
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joke Meister
Hong Kong
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To be fair, one on one, the marine is more likely to kill the genestealer (3 in 6 chance whereas a single genestealer only has a 2 in 6 chance of a kill). Of course, you aren't often facing just one genestealer.

In terms of making the game easier, I don't think you need to make a drastic change. I've found that, regardless of how that bloody red die works against me, I often get to the last room before actually losing. And the number of times that success is just a whisker away, sometimes even just a single die roll between winning and losing, is staggering given how hard this game is.

If you want an easier game, you could just make it so that the marines kill a genestealer on a 1-4. An alternative variant is that the genestealer only kills the marine if the number rolled is less than the number of attacking genestealers. Both are relatively minor changes which should significantly improve your odds of winning.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
F H
United Kingdom
UK
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What I'd really love is a game where the Marines kick ass.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joke Meister
Hong Kong
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FNH1 wrote:
What I'd really love is a game where the Marines kick ass.


Careful what you wish for - with Murphy's Law, you will prob find that you play the role of the aliens...
3 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pascal Van Vlaenderen
Belgium
Lissewege
Belgie
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
The game itself isn't too hard.
Learn how to keep the swarms under control and it's perfectly doable.

You're goal is to:
* Make sure you can handle the next wave
* Know the main space marines
* Kill them instead of defending
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fenmar
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If you find the game too hard, don't forget to read Friman's Death Angel Complete Guide. It explain in depth how to use each team, and what to expect from the genestealers, and may incredibly change your gameplay.

Overall, I do not consider the game so hard. From my experience with solo games (3 random teams), the initial phase is the most critical: if you have no losses there, it is practically impossible not to get to the last room, and then quite possible to win the game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Ainsworth
United Kingdom
Manchester
Lancashire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FNH1 wrote:
What I'd really love is a game where the Marines kick ass.


These games exist in virtual gaming - Dawn of War 2 or Space Marine (both excellent games).

I'm sure you know all of this FN, but just to get it down here's my thought process on how Death Angel represents the 1st Company Marines.

Terminators are badass, but they're not indestructible. And they're not throwaway troops either (no Space Marines are - when they strike they tend to go straight for the throat of the enemy in lightning attacks to cause as much disruption as possible). In full on battles they die just like anybody else does. Sure, lasgun and bolt rounds might bounce off them (most of the time, but even these can find chinks and kill the Terminator) but heavy weapons are going to ruin their day just like anybody else. I remember playing Space Marine/Titan Legion back in the 90's and initially being shocked at how many Marines, even Terminators, would be killed after their seeming superiority in 40k.

The thing about Space Hulk in particular though is that the Terminators are the chapters best hope of getting in and sorting it out, but "best hope" often means "last ditch". The Terminators are basically walking into a constant state of ambush (scanners don't penetrate the hulks a lot of the time so sometimes they don't even know if they're going in the right direction) against enemies that can go toe to toe with them under even ideal situations, in tight, winding corridors with limited fields of fire. Six hundred years before the Sin of Damnation showed up, the Blood Angels were almost wiped out during their assault on another Space Hulk.

Also, the swarm doesn't represent a broiling mass of bodies filling a room, impossible to miss. To me it represents the stealers flanking, breaking out of grates, dropping from the ceiling... they're not stupid creatures.

So, I do think Death Angel represents this quite well.

I do agree though, I'd like to see Marines kicking ass. How would you handle that?
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
F H
United Kingdom
UK
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've seen cut scenes where Space Marines stride through a scene mowing down enemies, but not one game I've tried has ever EVER captured that feeling.

The nearest I've seen was Space Crusade, what, 20 years ago?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Ainsworth
United Kingdom
Manchester
Lancashire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Space Marine and Dawn of War 2 both fill that gap if that's what you're after. But yeah, tabletop there is nothing. Even in 40k itself they die like
Everything else.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Lane
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FNH1 wrote:
I've seen cut scenes where Space Marines stride through a scene mowing down enemies, but not one game I've tried has ever EVER captured that feeling.

The nearest I've seen was Space Crusade, what, 20 years ago?

In an open field, that tends to be the case. In enclosed spaces, that heavy armor works against them rather than to their advantage. They're essentially playing in the genestealers' preferred battlefield, where they are given ample opportunity to use their brood telepathy, speed and stealth to outflank, outmaneuver, and close the distance before the terminators can draw a bead on them. Once they're close, it's advantage: genestealers. Rending claws are a bitch.

In short, you assume an even playing field, and that the genestealers play fair. Neither of these are the case.

Also: numbers. Congratulations, young terminator. You've killed that genestealer in front of you! unfortunately, you're now surrounded, they move much faster than you and you can maybe deal with one more of them on your left or right before the one behind you and the one on the other side peel you like a banana. Have fun!

If you're looking for some game where the space marines have all the advantages and stomp their way through everything with little resistance, I'd steer you in the opposite direction of anything Space Hulk related, as in the fluff they pretty much went into those hulks under-prepared and got their asses handed to them. I think SH did a good job at capturing the desperation of those terminators that were so used to destroying everything they looked at on the battlefield when thrown into the worst possible scenario.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nano
msg tools
Avatar
FNH1 wrote:
I've seen cut scenes where Space Marines stride through a scene mowing down enemies, but not one game I've tried has ever EVER captured that feeling.

The nearest I've seen was Space Crusade, what, 20 years ago?


You mean the game in which a single Gretchin could kill a Space Marine in hand to hand? The one in which only the Sargent survived while the rest of the squad was butchered?
My Terminators perform better than that in the Space Hulk.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
F H
United Kingdom
UK
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hell. Never, ever!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nano
msg tools
Avatar
Well, in Warhammer 40k Conquest the Space Marine faction is considered among the top tier: they have all sort of tricks to turn every battle into their favor. They perform very well, but as it is a competitive card game, they depend upon your skill outmatching your opponents, so... Maybe that's what you're looking for?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joke Meister
Hong Kong
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just had another look at the genestealer card and realised that each card shows multiple genestealers. It appears that you are mowing them down but there are just too many.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.