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Subject: Games including religion rss

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Edward Gilhead
United Kingdom
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Hi All.

So I've been catching up on the recent series of The Borgias, and I had an idea for a game set in the Vatican around at time. It still is at a very simple idea stage but as it is set in the Renascence, it would involve a lot of Machiavellian scheming and back stabbing...however it would also involve Princes of the Church...I was wondering what the general reaction of the community is to games involving scheming clergy?

Thanks,
TG
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Graham Muller
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There should be no problem with the theme.
But also depends on how you handle it,
Serious or tongue in cheek is not a problem.

But if it comes across as a lecture against the clergy or the church then you will find more serious backlash.
But this doesn't sound like the way you are approaching it.
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marc lecours
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Check out Here I Stand . It takes place in roughly the same time as your idea. One of the 6 payers plays the papacy. The game includes religious debates where the loser has a chance of being burned at the stake.
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Dr Caligari
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Nuns on the Run did not create a large outrage to my knowledge (well, maybe a small one). But I agree, it depends on how you handle it. You will find well done games, and very irreverent games, on this geeklist.
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Brendan Riley
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La Grange
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"Life is more fun if you play games." - Roald Dahl
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Fief also includes the politics of religious office in 15th century France.
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Dmitriy Popkov
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Vladivostok
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De Vulgari Eloquentia
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Patiently waiting for the zombie apocalypse...
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rubberchicken wrote:
Check out Here I Stand . It takes place in roughly the same time as your idea. One of the 6 payers plays the papacy. The game includes religious debates where the loser has a chance of being burned at the stake.

Also Virgin Queen has religious conflict in it.
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Jeff Warrender
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I would suggest changing the title of this thread, as the concern you're articulating isn't really about the inclusion of religion in games, but rather pertains to the negative portrayal of religion in games.

However, in this case, the things you're thinking about including -- scheming and intrigues by the clergy -- were what actually happened historically. I can't really imagine anyone objecting to that.
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Eddy Sterckx
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A quick plug her for The HellGame - power politics in hell loosely based on Dante's Divine Comedy
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John
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jwarrend wrote:
However, in this case, the things you're thinking about including -- scheming and intrigues by the clergy -- were what actually happened historically. I can't really imagine anyone objecting to that.

I can, you'll find someone who will object to pretty much anything. It doesn't mean you should take any notice of the objections though. AS long as a game is historically plausible and doesn't look like an obvious attempt to bash someone or an organisation the designer disagrees with then I don't see any problem. It sounds like your game would say "in The Renaissance there were some scheming and back stabbing clergy" rather than "all [Clergy/Catholics/Christians/Religious people] are scheming and back stabbing". The first statement isn't attempting to offend whereas any of the second statements almost certainly are.
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Jeff Warrender
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zabdiel wrote:
jwarrend wrote:
However, in this case, the things you're thinking about including -- scheming and intrigues by the clergy -- were what actually happened historically. I can't really imagine anyone objecting to that.

I can, you'll find someone who will object to pretty much anything. It doesn't mean you should take any notice of the objections though. AS long as a game is historically plausible and doesn't look like an obvious attempt to bash someone or an organisation the designer disagrees with then I don't see any problem. It sounds like your game would say "in The Renaissance there were some scheming and back stabbing clergy" rather than "all [Clergy/Catholics/Christians/Religious people] are scheming and back stabbing". The first statement isn't attempting to offend whereas any of the second statements almost certainly are.

Well, sure; your third sentence is essentially the unspoken caveat that I was assuming, in the sense of "if you're not actively seeking to offend anyone, then anyone who is offended by the game you're proposing to create probably isn't someone that should be taken seriously anyway."
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If Freedom the Underground Railroad can make an amazing game out of one of the most detestable things in American history, anything is possible!
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Edward Gilhead
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All,

Thanks for the input I understand what people are saying and I had planned to make it as historically accurate as possible. Hopefully this will assuage all but the few who are never happy.

I'll keep on with the game idea. See what I can make of it over the next few days.

Cheers,
TG
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
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rubberchicken wrote:
Check out Here I Stand . It takes place in roughly the same time as your idea. One of the 6 payers plays the papacy. The game includes religious debates where the loser has a chance of being burned at the stake.
In fact, two of the seven powers are purely religious (Papacy and Protestants) with the debates being their main "battlefield" - though they also field actual forces in Europe (Peasant Wars and all that). The Ottomans can be considered "the" Muslim power in the game, though religion plays less of a role there than e.g. England (where you have all that jazz with Henry VIII, Mary and Elizabeth going on) or France.
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Michael Ink
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I love Here I Stand! Although, I do find mostly protestants want to play the Papacy....
 
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Mason Weaver
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TunzaG wrote:
Hi All.

So I've been catching up on the recent series of The Borgias, and I had an idea for a game set in the Vatican around at time. It still is at a very simple idea stage but as it is set in the Renascence, it would involve a lot of Machiavellian scheming and back stabbing...however it would also involve Princes of the Church...I was wondering what the general reaction of the community is to games involving scheming clergy?

Thanks,
TG

I've actually been on the hunt for a game about simony, selling of indulgences, the great schism, and the general nastiness of the papacy over the middle thousand years of its existence.

Or something along the lines of The Strawbs song "The Hangman and the Papist". It contains the fabulous line, screamed repeatedly at the end, "Forgive me God, we hang him in thy name".
 
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Thayne Weston
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wombat929 wrote:
Fief also includes the politics of religious office in 15th century France.

This game is what I came to add as well. Check it out and see if it is for you.
 
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Mauricio Montoya
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I'd say the trick is that you try to make any of those elements in your game as historically accurate as possible, not based on religious propaganda or fearmongering from either side, but on well known and documented facts and characters (having some well researched bits in the cards as flavor text would be great for that).

Sure, it's easier to do if you base your game, say, in renaissance Italy or France during the crusades, where the excesses and manipulations of the church and many popes are well known. Even deeply religious people recognize most of the things happened around that time, so much that the last two catholic popes have publicly condemned and asked for forgiveness in the name of the church for many of those abuses.

It would be another story if you wanted to base your game around more recent religious scandals, true as they might be, because fanatics for and against those institutions could still be alive, we're not distant enough to see things in a more objective way, and that would make your game more prone to negative backlash.
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