Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

Leader 1» Forums » Rules

Subject: Being absorbed by the peloton. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Will Raich
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have now played two races and am a bit fuzzy on the rules regarding peloton absorption and breaking away. I actually own the Giro D'Italia version, but those forums seem much more sparse.

So, my understanding of breaking away from the peloton is that you are first placed in one of the spaces in front of the peloton. Then you start with a clean slate and get to do your free movement and paid movements. This seems fine, but in my race last night a friend wanted to be absorbed so he could just get the free space next turn from being placed in front of the peloton. This would essentially give a free space.

Thoughts? Am I missing something?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Di Ponio
United States
Lake Orion
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That does not sound right. I don't think there is a free space in general.
There is a free 'base' movement ability based on the terrain that the peloton is on. So if your rider is a Rouler on Flatland, you get 3 free (base) movement and then can spend energy to get to the 4 min for a breakaway or more spaces if desired.

If you haven't downloaded the v2.1 rules, do so and the game will make way better sense. The original rules were not translated very well.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
René Christensen
Denmark
Solroed Strand
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sneaky friend!
There perhaps should be a house rule here?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Price

South Brisbane
QLD, Australia
msg tools
mb
That doesn't sound quite right.

A broken away rider moves before the peloton, so you should have already moved before being absorbed.

If the peloton pulls even or in front of your square, you are absorbed and get placed back into the peloton. You are not required to pay energy for the peloton's movement when it caught you.

I believe that if the peloton completely passes you, since you are absorbed, you essentially get free movement to keep up with the peloton. You would only get dropped if you are not able to pay the required energy for the peloton movement...but that would not apply until the following peloton movement.

The trickier question is if you get passed by the peloton because of a puncture which requires you to move after the peloton movement. If the peleton catches you, are you absorbed and carried forward, or does it pass you and do you then make your movement following your puncture delay? I always play that the peloton passes you, but I think the rules are vague. And can you catch up to the peloton and pass it without ever being absorbed? Or do you get absorbed and have to wait until the next turn to break away again?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Holger Doessing
Denmark
Odense
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wjraich wrote:
So, my understanding of breaking away from the peloton is that you are first placed in one of the spaces in front of the peloton. Then you start with a clean slate and get to do your free movement and paid movements. This seems fine, but in my race last night a friend wanted to be absorbed so he could just get the free space next turn from being placed in front of the peloton. This would essentially give a free space.

Thoughts? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing the bit in the rules* that says: "B.2 Breaking away: (...) To break away, a rider must move a minimum of 4 squares." Since no rider has a base move of more than 4 they can at most break even on a descent, but most of the time they will have to expend energy.**

Moreover, whenever a rider is absorbed by the peloton they immediately start moving with the peloton (cf. the paragraph immediately preceding section B.2 in the rules). This means that if the peloton's movement movement is 5 or more, all riders in the peloton - including those that were just absorbed - must expend energy. Jumping out of the peloton and being immediately re-absorbed is therefore generally a poor strategy.***



Now, on a completely different note:
wjraich wrote:
So, my understanding of breaking away from the peloton is that you are first placed in one of the spaces in front of the peloton. Then you start with a clean slate and get to do your free movement and paid movements.

This is also slightly incorrect (emphasis mine). When you break away you start counting spaces with zero being the peloton itself. Placing your rider on the space immediately in front of the peloton would therefore constitute moving 1 space. A valid breakaway might therefore look like this:



I hope this answer satisfies you; your friend will probably be a bit disappointed to learn that his loophole doesn't exist, though.



* (I couldn't actually find the official rules online, and I've even lost my own copy! However, as I recall, the wording in the community-revised version 2.1 of the Leader 1 rules, which is what I am quoting here, is very close to that of the original text.)

** (A small exception would be if the rider chose to use his skill card to gain a one-time bonus, but those are native to Giro d'Italia: The Game only, not the original Leader 1. Edit: Another exception is when a downhill specialist uses his bonus on a descent.)

*** (I don't want to sound like an ass-hat, but Brian's answer about paying no energy upon being absorbed by the peloton is most definitely incorrect.)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Raich
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
holgerd wrote:

This is also slightly incorrect (emphasis mine). When you break away you start counting spaces with zero being the peloton itself. Placing your rider on the space immediately in front of the peloton would therefore constitute moving 1 space. A valid breakaway might therefore look like this:



I hope this answer satisfies you; your friend will probably be a bit disappointed to learn that his loophole doesn't exist, though.



Wow. Your answer definitely did satisfy me. Thanks for the lengthy response. The quoted section above seems to be the key portion that we did incorrectly. We started counting movement from the space in front of the peloton, which is where all of this confusion arose.

Thanks for all of your answers!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Price

South Brisbane
QLD, Australia
msg tools
mb
Well now I am confused
Consider the following outcomes to this situation (without the pretty graphics)

A leader (yellow base) rider starts his turn exactly one space in front of the peloton.

-----------------------------
Option 1: He desires to stay in front of the peloton so takes his two free movements and then pays 5 energy for 3 additional movements.

[Peloton][L-start][Free][Free][Pay][Pay][Pay/L-end]

Now the peloton rolls, gets a 5 and adds 1 pursuit for a total of 6. The peloton ends on the same square as the leader and he gets absorbed.

Does the Leader have to pay the additional 2 energy of the peloton movement after he has already paid 5 energy in this move already? It costs him two energy to have the peloton catch up to him?
----------------------------

Option 2: The Leader assumes he will get absorbed so chooses not to move at all and thus recovers 2 energy.

The peloton gets the same roll of 5 and adds a pursuit for a total of 6. The peloton would now end its turn 4(back) and 5 (front) spaces in front of the Leader.

Can the Leader get absorbed, pay the 2 energy of the peloton move, and end on the same spot as option 1 for zero net energy whereas in option 1 he paid 5 or 7 energy?

---------------------------

Option 3: The Leader makes his two free movements and pays 1 energy to end 4 spaces in front of the peloton. The peloton rolls a 5 and adds 1 pursuit for 6 such that the back of the peloton is now one space ahead and the front of the peloton is now 2 spaces ahead of the leader.

The Leader wishes to be absorbed and thus he pays the 2 energy required for the peloton movement and thus is effectively two spaces further along than when he ended his turn.

----------------------------

So in option 3, the round end with the Leader on the same space for a cost of 3 energy. Option 1 it cost 7 energy and Option 2 it cost zero net energy. If the Leader had just made free movement, it would cost him 2 energy.



The scenario in option 1 is ridiculous. The Leader should not have to pay additional energy for being absorbed with no additional benefit in movement.

The scenario in Option 3 seems marginally acceptable. You get a benefit in position, but there is the opportunity of paying more for that additional one space than it would normally cost to move (if you just used free movement and the peloton finished one space ahead, for instance), and you don't seem to be getting any benefit of slipstreaming now that you are in the peloton.

The scenario in option 2 seems game-y. It follows the rules but you get 5 spaces for free when normally in the peloton 5 spaces would cost you energy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Holger Doessing
Denmark
Odense
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good and relevant questions!
Let's have a closer look:
plaidpants wrote:
Consider the following outcomes to this situation (without the pretty graphics)

A leader (yellow base) rider starts his turn exactly one space in front of the peloton.

-----------------------------
Option 1: He desires to stay in front of the peloton so takes his two free movements and then pays 5 energy for 3 additional movements.

[Peloton][L-start][Free][Free][Pay][Pay][Pay/L-end]

Now the peloton rolls, gets a 5 and adds 1 pursuit for a total of 6. The peloton ends on the same square as the leader and he gets absorbed.

Does the Leader have to pay the additional 2 energy of the peloton movement after he has already paid 5 energy in this move already? It costs him two energy to have the peloton catch up to him?
----------------------------

Yes, he tried his best to stay ahead of the peloton. Unfortunately, he didn't push hard enough and got absorbed.

Questioning why he'd have to pay what seems like twice for going the same distance is a definitely fair question, but I can only say that Leader 1 is a board game, not a simulation. As such, there has to be an in-game penalty for repeatedly going out on a breakaway, only to be caught again. You rarely see this in real life racing, suggesting that the initial break is so consuming that you either attempt to finish what you started or let yourself fall back for the remainder of the race. Hence the 'penalty' in this case actually happens to serve it's purpose by making players emulate real-life tactics.

I feel I should point out that the rules allow riders to drop back out of the peloton (B.5), which will allow them to not pay the peloton's energy cost. (It's usually a poor move, though.)

plaidpants wrote:
Option 2: The Leader assumes he will get absorbed so chooses not to move at all and thus recovers 2 energy.

The peloton gets the same roll of 5 and adds a pursuit for a total of 6. The peloton would now end its turn 4(back) and 5 (front) spaces in front of the Leader.

Can the Leader get absorbed, pay the 2 energy of the peloton move, and end on the same spot as option 1 for zero net energy whereas in option 1 he paid 5 or 7 energy?

First, remember that a rider always has to move at least 1 space (B.1, cf. fig. 6a), so our leader would net (+1 energy for moving one space less than his free movement -2 energy for keeping up with the peloton) -1 energy from this manouvre. Not ideal, but it's better than frantically trying to outpace the bunch, only to be swallowed immediately (see above).

If your example was extended to a downhill specialist Rouleur on a descent with slipstreaming (i.e. free base move is 6) he would indeed be able to recover (+5-2) +3 energy while waiting for the peloton to catch him. Whether this is a good disposition or not is left as an exercise for the reader.

Second, the rules are also quite clear that: "(i)f the peloton overtakes a rider or finishes its move next to a rider (who had previously broken away) then that rider is absorbed back into the peloton (...)." Again, I'd leave it up to each player whether they actually want to join the peloton or not.


plaidpants wrote:
Option 3: The Leader makes his two free movements and pays 1 energy to end 4 spaces in front of the peloton. The peloton rolls a 5 and adds 1 pursuit for 6 such that the back of the peloton is now one space ahead and the front of the peloton is now 2 spaces ahead of the leader.

The Leader wishes to be absorbed and thus he pays the 2 energy required for the peloton movement and thus is effectively two spaces further along than when he ended his turn.

----------------------------

So in option 3, the round end with the Leader on the same space for a cost of 3 energy. Option 1 it cost 7 energy and Option 2 it cost zero -1 net energy. If the Leader had just made free movement, it would cost him 2 energy.

I can see how you feel that this look odd, but you're forgetting that in S1 our poor rider put in a lot of energy in order to try and stay ahead. It backfired and he must pay for his efforts.

In S2, our rider realized the futility of going any further and decided to coast along and wat for the peloton; under the right circumstances he might even save some enegy this way.

S3 sees our rider putting in some effort, but clearly not quite enough to stay ahead. Rather than simply coasting he actually pushed a bit ahead. I imagine his manager would like a word with him after the race.


In summary, the riders in all three examples end up rejoining the peloton. Rider S1 frantically tries to escape the bunch and spends a lot of energy. Rider S3 is not quite sure if it's worth the effort, so he pushes on a bit, but to no avail. Rider S2 realizes that it's not worth spending more energy on this breakaway and coasts along. He is hardly out of breath when they catch him.

I hope this clears it up a bit?

Edit: Re-worded the summary.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.