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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Legendary: Gotham [W.I.P.] - All suggestions welcomed! rss

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Michael M.
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Legendary: Gotham is a Batman themed variant expansion I am working on for Legendary, and would love your input along the way! While most of the rules you are familiar with from Legendary will carry over, I want this to be more than just regular Legendary with a Batman theme pasted on. Here are some key ways in which it differs:

1 - No Schemes or Masterminds, at least, not in the traditional sense. At the beginning of the game, players will shuffle together a "Crime deck" of 5 Crime cards and place it above the city, then flip the top card over. The Crime stays there until solved, and players solve it by spending the required attack points. When one Crime is solved, you flip over the next one. Printed on the Crime card are "Twist" effects. For example, the Crime "Escape from Arkham Asylum" could have a Twist effect of "Play the top two cards of the villain deck." To trigger these effects, Crime Twists are shuffled into the Villain Deck, similar to Scheme twists in regular legendary. The Crime deck would be constructed in such a way that the easiest Crime was on top and the hardest Crime was on the bottom. When players solve all five Crimes, they win the game.

2. Mastermimds. There is no single Mastermind as in regular legendary, however some villains in the city will have "Strike" effects. This is reserved for Gothsm's worst criminals, such as Joker and Two Face, but not necessarily on someone like Harley Quinn or Killer Croc. When a Master Strike is played from the villain deck, players check all villains in the city for Strike effects, and perform them one at a time, from left to right.

3. Infiltrate instead of escape. Instead of going into an escape pile when pushed off the bridge, escaping Villains will move down into the HQ, known here as the Batcave. The infiltrating villain KO's the left most hero in the cave, then takes it's spot, staying there. Players may still fight these villains, but Evil Wins if all 5 spots in the cave are occupied by villains.

4. Villain Groups. While villain groups in Marvel Legendary are quite thematic, the villain groups here will be even more so, representing full on scenarios. Each Scenario would consist of 14 cards, broken down in the following way:

x1 Crime
x7 Villains (some unique, some doubles)
x6 Henchmen

When a Crime is played from the villain deck, it's placed up next to the other Crimes, allowing multiple Crimes to be in play at once, making crime twists even more dangerous. Players must solve all Crimes in play and in the crime deck to win.

Those are most of the important things. Below are some sample cards. I'd live some feed back!

--------------------------------

Heroes:
- Batman
- Batgirl
- Nightwing
- Red Hood
- Red Robin
- Huntress

Villain Groups:
- Escape from Arkham
- Gangs of Gotham
- The Night of Owls

Miscellaneous:
- Starting Hand
- Commissioner Gordon
- Robin
- Traumas
- Crime Twists
- Master Strikes
- Hostages
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Mário Sousa
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This looks a promising variant.

Really liked some ideas in here. For example the Infiltrate. Love this, basically the villains will have more influence even when they leave the city.
Also liked the Crime Deck replacing the Schemes. But I have one question: will be there only 5 crime cards? If yes, that will get the game a little repetitive and that's what I'm not so sure to like on it... Because if there will be only 5 crime cards (plus the cards from the villains groups) you know that each game will always get the same steps to the end.

I think that, to avoid this, there could be 3 cards marked on the back for each difficulty. Then, during the setup, you would take a random card for each one making them a surprise during the game.

About the villains, some of them look a real pain in the ass to beat (Mad Hatter as an example). When you put the * in some of them, it means that they need some thing special to be defeated or, like Legendary, they can get more power?

And about heroes. Who are you thinking? Just the Gotham characters (Batman, Robin,...) or are you thinking in mixing more of the DC world?

In general, you got my attention to your variant. Great work
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Michael M.
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mspider_89 wrote:
This looks a promising variant.

Thanks!

mspider_89 wrote:
But I have one question: will be there only 5 crime cards? If yes, that will get the game a little repetitive and that's what I'm not so sure to like on it... Because if there will be only 5 crime cards (plus the cards from the villains groups) you know that each game will always get the same steps to the end.

My idea is that Crimes (that are not part of a Villain Group) will be marked in some way. Let's say a green dot would be easy, a yellow dot would be medium, and a purple dot would be hard. There would be 10 green crimes, 7 yellow crimes and 5 purple crimes total. At the beginning of the game you pick one random purple crime, put it on the bottom, stack two random yellow ones on top, then two greens one on the very top. That way you never know what's coming out and there will be around 22 different crimes. This also allows you to crank the difficulty up or down however you see fit. For example:

G/G/G/G/G = Kids Slay
Y/G/G/G/G = Very Easy
Y/Y/G/G/G = Easy
P/Y/Y/G/G = Normal
P/P/Y/Y/G = Hard
P/P/P/Y/Y = Very Hard
P/P/P/P/Y = Nightmare
P/P/P/P/P = Impossible

Of course, balancing the crimes will take a lot of work. This expansion won't be completed over night.

mspider_89 wrote:
About the villains, some of them look a real pain in the ass to beat (Mad Hatter as an example). When you put the * in some of them, it means that they need some thing special to be defeated or, like Legendary, they can get more power?

The villains definitely need balancing, which is why I put them up here to be critiqued. For MH, maybe I can change his ambush to simply "he gains 2 Hostages." Joker is the one I'm most curious about, I just don't know if the reveal four colors thing, while thematic (a deck of cards has four different suits), will be too easy or too hard.

mspider_89 wrote:
And about heroes. Who are you thinking? Just the Gotham characters (Batman, Robin,...) or are you thinking in mixing more of the DC world?

Right now just Batman. That's what I know well, I'm not really into the DC as a whole (though that's starting to change). I've always felt that Batman was best in a world all his own, though I know a lot of people disagree.

mspider_89 wrote:
In general, you got my attention to your variant. Great work

Thanks!
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Karl Foster
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So its more like Legendary Encounters: Batman then. I really like this! Infiltrate seems really fun and the set deck size with Crimes in there are pretty cool.

Have you you played Encounters: Alien? Its a fair point about the crimes maybe becoming repetitive but you could replace the schemes with something like the locations from encounters.

Looking forward to more of this!
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Michael M.
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Yup, I definitely got my encouragement from Encounters, and this will kind of blend both worlds. For example, the Vigilant and Coordinate keywords will be used heavily.

Here are some more ideas for basic cards:

Starting Hand:
x8 G.C.P.D. Officer (1 Recruit)
x4 ???? (1 Attack) (I still need a name for what the attacking basic card will be)

Forever Decks:
Police Commissioner - James Gordon (Instead of Maria Hill). (Cost 3, Versatile 1)
Robin (Instead of Sidekick/New Recruits) (cost 2, Vigilant: Return this card to the Robin deck to gain +1 attack)
Wound/Injury (still deciding between the two). TO make it different from Bindings/Wounds, the rule will be "Endure: You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck to KO this Injury"
Hostages/Special Hostages: Same as Bystanders, but the Special Hostages will be actual characters from the comics, like Alfred Pennyworth, Leslie Tompkins, etc. that have special text.
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Karl Foster
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How about GCPD SWAT for the attacking basics? Sure there are pics of them about from stuff like Gotham Central and it suits attack.
 
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Itai Rosenbaum
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I'm really liking this Crime system, in particular the scenario "Pods". In all honesty - I hope UpperDeck steals this for the Firefly game, it works a lot better than the 3-objective system they've established for Encounters. It's much more "episodic" and less "movie-ish".

Anywho, I haven't gone over the stats in depth, but from a cursory glance the villains do seem a bit on the powerful side. Getting a deck with 4 different colors in it is not easy, especially considering how you're usually trying to get color-combos more often than not.

As an aside, I think that relegating Robin to the Sidekick role, while hilarious, is kind of cruel to the Boy Wonder. He deserves to be his own full-fledged hero.
 
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Mário Sousa
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M_Strauss wrote:
My idea is that Crimes (that are not part of a Villain Group) will be marked in some way. Let's say a green dot would be easy, a yellow dot would be medium, and a purple dot would be hard. There would be 10 green crimes, 7 yellow crimes and 5 purple crimes total. At the beginning of the game you pick one random purple crime, put it on the bottom, stack two random yellow ones on top, then two greens one on the very top. That way you never know what's coming out and there will be around 22 different crimes. This also allows you to crank the difficulty up or down however you see fit.
That was exactly what I was thinking of, letting the game to be a surprise. And I didn't even think about that idea of set the difficulty by adapting the number of cards. Awsome!!

M_Strauss wrote:
The villains definitely need balancing, which is why I put them up here to be critiqued. For MH, maybe I can change his ambush to simply "he gains 2 Hostages." Joker is the one I'm most curious about, I just don't know if the reveal four colors thing, while thematic (a deck of cards has four different suits), will be too easy or too hard.
I'm not a experienced gammer in Legendary to know when a hero/villain is to overpowered, but I think that twist would balance MH a lot. Like changing something similar to Penguin would balance it also. In these first cards, you don't have a lot of villains with 3 or less power, but it that is a possibility. Specially when you start to create the henchmen (I'm talking about it because I'm guessing that henchmen will also trigger this power in Penguin. If not, just ignore this thought XD)
About joker, thematically I agree with you and the four color cards seems good. Also, it shows the difficulty to beat a big boss like Joker (you have to construct your deck to have the power to beat him). He just seems a little weak when you see his strength. I think at least a two would suit better a villain like him.

M_Strauss wrote:
Right now just Batman. (...) I've always felt that Batman was best in a world all his own, though I know a lot of people disagree.
Although I can sympathize with your base idea in here, I don't think you should do it. In my opinion, his strength also comes with his alliances with the other gotham heroes.
 
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Josh Worley
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IronSyndicate wrote:
As an aside, I think that relegating Robin to the Sidekick role, while hilarious, is kind of cruel to the Boy Wonder. He deserves to be his own full-fledged hero.

That's what Nightwing is for.
 
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Karl Foster
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swirlsaepi wrote:
IronSyndicate wrote:
As an aside, I think that relegating Robin to the Sidekick role, while hilarious, is kind of cruel to the Boy Wonder. He deserves to be his own full-fledged hero.

That's what Nightwing is for.

Always preferred time drake to dick greyson and jason Todd. Got his job by figuring out who batman was, not just getting picked off the street!

Have you considered using the bat signal to replace the new recruits? I know it's not a character as such but it could represent batman getting the drop on the enemy for attack. Or maybe if you wanted to replace sidekicks, drawing more cards is perfect for the bat symbol. It's essentially calls heroes to action.

As people have said, Robin is important enough to bat family to be a hero in his own right.

Speaking of heroes, any thoughts to teams/factions? Might be hard to balance combos if everyone is bat family.
 
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Michael M.
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The generic Robin will be either Tim or Damien, and there will be a Nightwing hero set and a Red Hood hero set to represent Dick and Jason.
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Itai Rosenbaum
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fostorial wrote:
Always preferred time drake to dick greyson and jason Todd. Got his job by figuring out who batman was, not just getting picked off the street!

* Random Kid Bruce felt sorry for.
* Tried to steal the Batmobile's hubcaps
* Figured out both Batman's and Nightwing's secret identity
* Lovechild with his ArchNemesis' daughter

One of these deserves the yellow short-shorts. The others... less so
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Karl Foster
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IronSyndicate wrote:
fostorial wrote:
Always preferred time drake to dick greyson and jason Todd. Got his job by figuring out who batman was, not just getting picked off the street!

* Random Kid Bruce felt sorry for.
* Tried to steal the Batmobile's hubcaps
* Figured out both Batman's and Nightwing's secret identity
* Lovechild with his ArchNemesis' daughter

One of these deserves the yellow short-shorts. The others... less so

At least the public didn't vote to have him beaten with a crowbar and then blown up. Must be doing something right
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Michael M.
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"Batman" hero set concept. Critiques please!

----------------------------------------------
..................Caped Crusader
....................Batman (x5)
[Bat]
[Ins]

0 Recruit
2+ Attack

[Ins]: Reveal the top card of your deck.
If it costs 1 or more, you get +2 Attack.

Cost: 3

----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
...................Dynamic Duo
....................Batman (x5)
[Bat]
[Ran]

1 Recruit
1 Attack

Gain a Robin to your hand.

Cost: 4

----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
..................Silent Guardian
....................Batman (x3)
[Bat]
[Cov]

0 Recruit
0 Attack

Draw a card.

Vigilant: If an Ambush effect, Master
Strike or Crime Twist would cause you
to KO or discard any cards, you may
discard this card instead.

Cost: 5

----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
.................The Dark Knight
....................Batman (x1)
[Bat]
[Str]

0 Recruit
0 Attack

Draw two cards.

Vigilant: You may discard this card
during any player's turn to give that
player +5 Attack.

Cost: 8

----------------------------------------------

Some notes on Batman: It was important to me that each of his cards be a different color. This relates back to the Joker (See OP) requiring a player to reveal four heroes of different colors to fight him. So, a full set of Batman could defeat the Joker.

Also, as you can see, I based his card names around titles. Originally it was going to be stuff like "batarang" or "grappling hook" which would have granted him some tech cards. But once I decided to go with the theme of various titles/nicknames he has, the tech didn't seem to fit. Which is kind of weird, 'cause Batman is a big tech guy...

Anyway, thoughts!?
 
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Mário Sousa
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M_Strauss wrote:
Some notes on Batman: It was important to me that each of his cards be a different color. This relates back to the Joker (See OP) requiring a player to reveal four heroes of different colors to fight him. So, a full set of Batman could defeat the Joker.
Since I already agreed with your idea for Joker, this seems good for me also and makes sense.

About the heroes, in general they seem fine. I think the "Caped Crusader" can get very powerful while you build your deck with new cards.
The "Dynamic Duo" card maybe needs to be clarified in my opinion. The Robin you gain is from the HQ, you search for it on the hero deck or in your deck? The way the text is put it can be anything.
The only one I have doubts is the rare card. Once again, I'm not very experienced in Legendary (and surely not in customized cards), but it seems to me that vigilant effect of the uncommon is way better than the one on the rare. I think it should have some recruit/fight value to balance this.
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Michael M.
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Thanks for the response! So, "Robin" will be an always available card that costs two, similar to New Recruits or Sidekicks. So think of "Gain a Robin to your hand" as "Gain a Sidekick to your hand," and it will work the same way in that you have to return it to the stack after you use it.

As for the rare, you do get to draw two cards on the turn you play it, and, unless I'm mistaken, you can use a card's vigilant power the same turn you play it. For example, you could play The Dark Knight, draw two cards, then put it in your discard pile gaining the extra attack. Or you could play it, draw two cards, then just leave it there until your next turn, or until another player's turn where giving THEM the extra attack would allow them to take down a villain or solve a crime. +3 attack may be low for a rare card, so I upped it to +5. Does that justify the cost, or does it need more tweaking?
 
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Nicholas Fetter
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I agree with mspider that the Rare seems underpowered at +3///. I was thinking that Mr. Fanastic's Uncommon gives you two cards and nothing, so a rare could do a bit more.

A +5/// to any player might be good, though. That is an interesting concept, to give other players attack on their turns by withholding your attack.
 
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Michael M.
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Seems like a very Batmany thing to do
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Mário Sousa
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Hum ok now I'm getting it. I was thinking that Robin will ended up to be a hero set. That's why it missed clarification to me.

So "vigilant" is more or less like "artifact", is that it? I don't know that power, I thought you were creating it for this variant.
Anyway, I think that update to +5 works better than just the +3 but I would still down its cost to 7.

Like Nicholas said, the concept of give other players your attack power is very interesting. It can show your position in the game: if you want to play it like competitive, you will use it only on your turns; if you play it co-operative, it's very powerful to help each others.
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Mário Sousa
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AlphaSilvr wrote:
I agree with mspider that the Rare seems underpowered at +3///. I was thinking that Mr. Fanastic's Uncommon gives you two cards and nothing, so a rare could do a bit more.
Actually is one of the commons that has this power.
 
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Nicholas Fetter
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lol - Yeah, thanks.
I tend to think of 5[Cost] as Uncommon not common.
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Michael M.
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These 14 cards make up the "Escape from Arkham" villain group. Thoughts and critiques, please! Keep in mind, this is meant to be one of the more difficult groups in the game, five mastermind villains in there, and very few beneficial fight effects.

----------------------------------------------
............Escape from Arkham
..................Crime (x1)

You cannot solve this crime if there are
any Escaped Inmates in Gotham or the
Cave.
Ambush: Put this card in crime alley,
then play a card from the villain deck.
Twist: Play cards from the villain deck
equal to one more than the number of
Escaped Inmates in Gotham or the Cave.
Solve: Each player draws two cards.

..............................................///: 4*
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
.......................Joker
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Before fighting Joker, you must first
reveal four Heroes of different colors.
(grey is a color)
Ambush/Strike: Each player reveals
the top four cards of their deck, KO's
one with the highest cost and discards
the rest.
Fight: Each player draws four cards.
Infiltrate: Each player reveals the
top four cards of their deck and KO's
any that are not grey. Gain a trauma
for each card KO'd this way.

..............................................///: 1*
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
......................Riddler
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Ambush/Strike: Each player says
"more than two," "less than two," or
"two," then discards the top card of
their deck. If the cost of that card
matches your answer, you may KO a
card from your hand or discard pile.
If it doesn't, gain two traumas.
Infiltrate: Same effect

..............................................///: 4
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
...................Mad Hatter
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Once per turn, you may spend 1 [Recruit]
to rescue a hostage captured by Mad
Hatter. You can't fight Mad Hatter if he
has any hostages.
Ambush: Mad Hatter captures three
Hostages.
Strike: If Mad Hatter is in Gotham,
he captures a hostage.
Infiltrate: KO all of Mad Hatter's
hostages. Each player discards cards up
to the number of hostages that were KO'd.

..............................................///: 3
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
...................Scarecrow
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Ambush/Strike: Reveal the top card
of your deck. If it costs 0, put it back,
then put three cards from your hand on
top of your deck in random order.
Infiltrate: Each player gains three
traumas to their hand.

..............................................///: 4
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
...................Poison Ivy
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Poison Ivy gets +[Attack] equal to the
cost of the hero in the Cave space directly
under her.
Ambush/Strike: Each player reveals
their hand and discards the highest card
hero they have.
Infiltrate: Each player reveals their
hand and KO's the highest card hero they
have.

..............................................///: 3
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
.................Harley Quinn
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Ambush: Each player discards a card
from their hand. If any players discarded
a card with a cost of 0, play the top card
of the villain deck.
Infiltrate: Same effect

..............................................///: 4
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
.................White Rabbit
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x1)

Elusive 5
Ambush: After entering the Sewers,
move White Rabbit to the left most empty
city space in Gotham. If there are no empty
spaces available, she infiltrates the cave.
Infiltrate: Play the top card of the
villain deck.

..............................................///: 2*
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
.............Escaped Inmates
..Villain - Escape from Arkham (x6)

Fight: Draw a card.
Infiltrate: Each player gains
a trauma.

..............................................///: 3
----------------------------------------------
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Michael M.
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The OP now has a table of a contents that links to different parts of the game (aka, posts in this thread).

Also, Traumas are my new idea for Wounds/Bindings. I'm thinking the way they'll work is something like "Endure: Put a card from your hand on top of your deck to KO this trauma."

Yes, vigilant is like Artifacts, more like Thrown Artifacts specifically. Except you just discard them as normal, you don't put them on the bottom of your deck as in Fear Itself. Also, for those who don't own Villains, elusive basically means you need to make that much recruit on your turn before fighting that villain. You don't have to spend that much recruit, you just have to have made it.
 
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Mário Sousa
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Maybe I'm mistaken, but shouldn't the "Escaped Inmates" be henchmen?

This really seems a powerful villain group. I'm almost sweating just to imagine to beat them xD I don't know all this characters (being away from a regularly comics reader for a long time), but from the ones I know I really like how their powers reflect the characters.

Keep with the good work, you already got a fan here.
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Michael M.
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Yup, they are henchmen, but since villain groups and henchmen are combined into one group here, there didn't seem to be a reason to specify.
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