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Subject: The Sigmar Effect. rss

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Talking to fellow gamers as I do, it seems almost everywhere I go somebody has something to say about Sigmar...

As time passes, it seems the poisoness haters are running out of venom and more and more the story I most hear out of people is of long lost armies being dug out of cupboards and boxes, from under the bed and in the basement and coming again to the table.

Rules are being downloaded, old friends called, painting is finally being completed after years of inactivity, scenery being made and repaired and above all, laughter and actual fun are coming back to the hobby of Warhammer.

The thing about Sigmar, is the people that hate it, really do HATE it and are quick to let you know.
They state the lack of rules, lack of points structure, lack of respect for them as devoted customers, with all the passion of Tom Cruise defending his space church.

And you know what? That is another way Sigmar saves time.

Right away I can tell that they are not people I would enjoy playing Sigmar with anyway and say "oh, I can tell that your a Warhammer Fantasy Battles player, that's not THIS game, this is Age Of Sigmar" and I escort them from the conversation like a lost, slightly angry and confused elderly person, back to a conversation about their own game, a game called Warhammer Fantasy Battles, where you moved in rank and file and had to spend a fortune on a book to argue over instead of playing...
"They are just not the same system" I say "Same miniatures yes... Same system no."

But due to a kind of hazy marketing/fiction crossover from workshop to justify porting old miniatures into a completely different system, these poor souls weren't really told that the game as they knew it ended, but that their miniatures can now do different things in a DIFFERENT game if they want.

It took me a while to figure it out, why they seem so angry, why so confused?
It's the WARHAMMER name I think.
I know workshop HAD to use it, but in certain people, what "Warhammer" means is a very specific style of play.

If you put "40k" on the end of the word "Warhammer" it becomes a different thing again.

They are just a bit lost is all, they see Warhammer and no 40k and they think "I know that game, I spent thousands of dollars learning it" but then they see the round bases, the no points, the no books and they just kind of lose it.

Some are angry, some sad, some sell their stuff, some break their stuff and it's all over a name... Warhammer.

If Age of Sigmar was released as "Age of Sigmar" with a note that said "use your Warhammer figures here too!"
I think we would be looking at a completely different reaction.

We humans are funny creatures... It's all in a name and what the name has come to mean.

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Sean Howard
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1) The Warhammer name is not what people are upset about. I believe it to be the simple fact that the way that some people interact with miniature wargaming, Age of Sigmar does not have or so poorly implements it as to be insultingly slight (in their opinion, not mine). Basically, because of how different the game's expectations for play are, there are no traditions to follow in Age of Sigmar, and without them, some players are lost. And that is frustrating. That's why points are such a lightning rod for criticism - without them, what takes their place? Right now, nothing. Frustration ensues. It's up to us, the players, to create these new traditions in an accepting, cooperative manner.

2) I don't think anyone benefits from belittling those they disagree with. The amount of negativity surrounding Sigmar is oppressive and annoying, but we shouldn't sink to their level.

3) Some people are indeed incensed that Warhammer's fantasy world was destroyed, and I think we need to respect that. It has a 30 year history with some respected fiction and a lifetime of quality gaming experiences. Though that all remains, there is not much in the way of new fiction or new gaming experiences to look forward to, and that is not something we should take pleasure from. It will take time for Sigmar to build its own history, and in the mean time, we can help celebrate everything Warhammer was as we look forward to everything it now will one day become.

4) The naysayers are really annoying and the gleeful way they dismiss others and crap up threads with their intense negativity and stubborn refusal to behave like human beings is absolutely the worst part of Age of Sigmar thus far. Not the rules. Not the death of a beloved franchise. Not even all the skulls. Anti-fans are the worst. On this, I think we agree.
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The irony of this whole thing is Sigmar exists because all the "traditionalists" walked away from fantasy battle.

There are a number of reasons why, price, other games, lack of innovation, the list goes on... But what gives me the absolute shits is these guys who stopped buying the product, haven't played it in years, but did at one stage in their lives have and army and they spent a lot of money on books, go completely out of their minds that the old system was replaced!

It's like they think they should be have a private seat booked for them on an aeroplane that's doing nothing but flying back and forth completely empty, just on the off chance that they might want to use it one day and when they don't, and the seat is given to someone else, well they go out of their damn minds claiming "today was the day they were going to use it, but now, thanks to this outrage, they will never go back to Games Workshop!"

And you know what... Good!

Let them go! See ya! Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!

As gamers, most of the people making all the negative noise are the very people that caused Sigmar to have to happen in the first place... They ALREADY left and sales were at an all time low.

Now I know its just a damn game, but because of my support for it I have had to endure getting flamed by these tools from one forum to the next all over the English speaking world.

Don't tell me not take shots at these idiots, they are quite happy to take shots at people who really love this game and are excited by its future.

And every time I rip apart one of their child like rants, I love Sigmar just a little bit more for flushing these people out of that corner of wargaming.

I doesn't make me a bad person or "as bad as them".

It just makes me a guy who doesn't like someone who comes into a house for the sole reason to try and tear it down.

They should join an "I hate Sigmar" forum and just go crazy, but please do it away from the rest of us.

You don't stand in McDonalds screaming at people for not eating at Burger King... It just makes no sense and does nothing to enrich anybody's experience.
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matthew mclaughlin
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To some extent I can understand the anger and frustration - I've had games I love die - Warhammer Quest, Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Mordheim, and now WHFB (all GW games, what do you know) - and felt the same way for a period of time.

That was until I realized that those games weren't dead as long as I played them and my group enjoyed them.

I get that this may be slightly different because of the tournament aspect of WHFB. My group has always played 3rd edition, none of us completes in tournaments, so none of us is affected much by this other than that we'll have to take to ebay exclusively to buy miniatures/models.

I bought into Age of Sigmar and have enjoyed it. Not to the extent yet that we've stopped playing WHFB, but my group approached it with an open mind and had a lot of fun with it. We started with playing it straight out of the box, all took turns playing the Stormcast or Chaos. The games were balanced, quick, but fun. We were able to do a round robing with five players in a night. I'm more than willing to see where it goes and keep an open mind (even though, as I've stated previously, I do not like the model line so far - that doesn't effect how I feel about the gam and gameplay).

There are people on here who have given AoS rules a fair shake and disliked them, and that's fine, I can respect that. But WHFB was selling poorly and GW had to make a change. They couldn't please everyone, so something had to give.

Bummer about the tournaments. But WHFB still exists, can be played. And you can play and enjoy both WHFB and AoS no problem.
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I think that you miss the source of the rage. No reasonable person is upset about a new game coming out, and fluff is just fluff.
However, when you buy a product, you expect there to be merchantability/standing behind what is sold.
I recently (over the past 6 to 18 months) spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on a new WHFB army. I did this to play WHFB, with the understanding that GW would support their product.
Well, they are not only NOT supporting their product, they are actively killing in.
FAQ's removed.
All books pulled from stores (yes, they actively pay store owners to send them back WHFB books, something that store owners had never heard of before.
All WHFB products pulled form online
All community support killed, such as linking to tournaments, prize funding, etc.
When I decide to invest in a product I do not expect the seller to be making secret plans to thwart my investment, which is exactly what they've been planning for apparently a really long time.
I realize that everyone always has the option to play whatever they want, but without at least token backing from GW, then WHFB is going to die on the vine since there will no longer be new players. And when I bought into WHFB I bought into their being a community of players with which to play the game.
Also, what really, really perplexes me is WHY? If you make a new skirmish game, why kill the rank and file game? The skirmish game would have been a great way to start grass rooting more WHFB players. They start with Sigmar, and eventually some of them will want to try their armies in a more complicated game (and buy more models to do so. More WHFB players would have also gotten into a skirmish game if they didn't feel like they were being forced to do so.
So yes, there is rage, because GW pulled a blatant and big F* U to a loyal and long standing customer base. I hope that anyone who is thinking about getting into a GW hobby changes their mind since GW has shown that they will actively and with forethought screw over their customers, and they will probably do so again.
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Aaron Morgan
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Sqorgar wrote:
Basically, because of how different the game's expectations for play are, there are no traditions to follow in Age of Sigmar, and without them, some players are lost. And that is frustrating. That's why points are such a lightning rod for criticism - without them, what takes their place? Right now, nothing. Frustration ensues. It's up to us, the players, to create these new traditions in an accepting, cooperative manner.

This x1000. Every argument against AoS I've been in has come down to this, and I ask the other person if they have ever played a game where they sat down with their opponent, created a scenario, and picked forces that would make for a fun game.

Blank stares, every time.

Scenario-based gaming goes back to Kriegsspiel and Little Wars. None of this change to GW's game registered as even a speedbump to the historical gamers in my circles.

Points-based systems make it easy to just throw together an army, but you're not going to get a consensus among players as to what's "balanced", so why not go with what you find fun instead of relying on someone else's definition of how the game should be set up?
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Guer wrote:
I think that you miss the source of the rage. No reasonable person is upset about a new game coming out, and fluff is just fluff.
However, when you buy a product, you expect there to be merchantability/standing behind what is sold.

While I agree that they should have handled the end of WFB/Beginning of AoS significantly better (slowing down rather speeding up new releases, making cross compatable books rather than strictly WFB books, kits that include both round and square bases so that new purchases would not need to be repackaged in a few months time), if not going for a different strategy entirely (personally, I would have loved a grand crossover game where you could play Fantasy VS 40K against each other with a focus on low model counts and introducing players to the GW game system on their way to one or the other of the big games).

But, that's not how it played out. Personally, as someone who wasn't terribly interested in the goings on at GW prior to AoS coming out, still heard rumor of a new version of the game coming out (some nebulous time in the future) that would bring it more in line with 40Ks play style. This was over a year ago - before the End Game stuff started coming out, so I was well prepared for a big change with the new edition - and personally, I couldn't be happier. It's gotten me to dig out all of the stuff I'd gotten before, and start actively looking for games to play.
 
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Guer wrote:

Well, they are not only NOT supporting their product, they are actively killing in.
FAQ's removed.
All books pulled from stores (yes, they actively pay store owners to send them back WHFB books, something that store owners had never heard of before.
All WHFB products pulled form online
All community support killed, such as linking to tournaments, prize funding, etc.
That's interesting about buying the books back. Do you know if they forced the retailers to sell it back, or simply offered to buy back stock in good faith for retailers who dealt they couldn't move a dead product line?

I think we'll see something very similar happen when GW loses the Hobbit license soon.

Quote:

Also, what really, really perplexes me is WHY? If you make a new skirmish game, why kill the rank and file game? The skirmish game would have been a great way to start grass rooting more WHFB players. They start with Sigmar, and eventually some of them will want to try their armies in a more complicated game (and buy more models to do so. More WHFB players would have also gotten into a skirmish game if they didn't feel like they were being forced to do so.
My guess is that they thought WFB was unsalvageable for some reason. Maybe it was too similar to Warcraft's lore and they wanted to differentiate themselves. Maybe it was too generic a world to be worth maintaining. Maybe WFB wasn't selling well and they didn't think they could vitalist interest in it as is. Maybe it was all of the above. I done know, but I'm fairly certain that if they thought they could support WFB and Sigmar, they would've.


Quote:

So yes, there is rage, because GW pulled a blatant and big F* U to a loyal and long standing customer base. I hope that anyone who is thinking about getting into a GW hobby changes their mind since GW has shown that they will actively and with forethought screw over their customers, and they will probably do so again.
I don't think you appreciate how brave this decision was. It is so daring, I feel like it was either born out of desperation or vision (or both), and I'm pretty excited to see where it goes. What I don't think they did, however, is screw WFB players over. Knowing that they were killing the line, they let WFB go out with a bang with End Times. They could've just unceremoniously dropped it without a word, but they gave it a send off AND made your armies 100% compatible with their new game. If anything, they've gone out of their way to accommodate WFB players during this difficult transition.
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Guer wrote:
...
Also, what really, really perplexes me is WHY? If you make a new skirmish game, why kill the rank and file game? The skirmish game would have been a great way to start grass rooting more WHFB players. They start with Sigmar, and eventually some of them will want to try their armies in a more complicated game (and buy more models to do so. More WHFB players would have also gotten into a skirmish game if they didn't feel like they were being forced to do so.
...

The "why" is pretty straight forward. It costs money to hold inventory and provide support. That product that doesn't sell is taking up shelf and warehouse space for things that will sell.
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Jon_1066 wrote:
Guer wrote:
...
Also, what really, really perplexes me is WHY? If you make a new skirmish game, why kill the rank and file game? The skirmish game would have been a great way to start grass rooting more WHFB players. They start with Sigmar, and eventually some of them will want to try their armies in a more complicated game (and buy more models to do so. More WHFB players would have also gotten into a skirmish game if they didn't feel like they were being forced to do so.
...

The "why" is pretty straight forward. It costs money to hold inventory and provide support. That product that doesn't sell is taking up shelf and warehouse space for things that will sell.

However, that doesn't answer the flip side of the question - why, knowing full well that the product would be obsolete a mere few months after release, did Games Workshop not design the End Times model kits and books to be cross compatable with Age of Sigmar (round bases, War Scrolls included alongside the traditional stat blocks, etc), rather than something that would eventually sell through the initial print run (rather than costing them money buying the books back from stores)? Surely, they'd want to get as much out of their investment as they could.
 
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Magius wrote:

However, that doesn't answer the flip side of the question - why, knowing full well that the product would be obsolete a mere few months after release, did Games Workshop not design the End Times model kits and books to be cross compatable with Age of Sigmar (round bases, War Scrolls included alongside the traditional stat blocks, etc), rather than something that would eventually sell through the initial print run (rather than costing them money buying the books back from stores)? Surely, they'd want to get as much out of their investment as they could.

How do you figure? it was all designed to be completely compatible. All war scrolls are available for free on line. Bases don't matter in AoS. Solved.

As for buying books back, I worked in a book store for years. This is standard procedure. When you can't sell a book you send it back to the publisher for a portion of your purchase price. In the case of Magazines and soft cover books, you actually just send the cover back, and they pay you for a portion of your purchase price. You don't usually get all of your money back, but you do get most of it back. That's why some soft cover books have a notice inside saying if the cover has been removed, then the publisher/author didn't receive any compensation for the book. I'm not sure it extends to the hobby book world, but most of the book publishing world works like this.

The problem here is that for some reason, a group of old WHFB players feel entitled to some sort of support or additional resources. Well, we aren't. We aren't entitled to anything more than what we paid for. We have no contract with GW.

That said, GW did kind of tell us the old world was done. I mean, what else do we all think 'End Times' was supposed to mean?

Beyond that, they did something else awesome. They thanked us all for out loyalty to the old game by letting us try the new one for free. Seriously. Do you think they 'had' to give you rules for all the old models? No. They didn't. Was it good business sense? Absolutely. But it didn't have to happen. They gave us free rules, and free war scrolls and said, go to town. Try out this new game with all the stuff you spent your time and money on, and we won't charge you a damn thing. Sorry the old game didn't work out, but we really hope you like the new one enough to keep playing.

All of the people out their complaining about the death of WHFB are laboring under the weight of their entitled mind set. You have the game you paid for. You have another game you didn't pay for. You got everything you were owed and more. If you don't like AoS, fine. Don't play it. You didn't pay for it anyway, so go play the game you did pay for.

I agree that GW could stand to communicate better with it's player base. It's mentality of keeping everything a secret is a constant problem for them. I mean, their info leaks all over the web anyway, and sits out there for the trolls to mull over for months. GW ought to get ahead of the curve and control their own message.
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Guer wrote:
I think that you miss the source of the rage. No reasonable person is upset about a new game coming out, and fluff is just fluff.
However, when you buy a product, you expect there to be merchantability/standing behind what is sold.
I recently (over the past 6 to 18 months) spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on a new WHFB army. I did this to play WHFB, with the understanding that GW would support their product.
Well, they are not only NOT supporting their product, they are actively killing in.
FAQ's removed.
All books pulled from stores (yes, they actively pay store owners to send them back WHFB books, something that store owners had never heard of before.
All WHFB products pulled form online
All community support killed, such as linking to tournaments, prize funding, etc.
When I decide to invest in a product I do not expect the seller to be making secret plans to thwart my investment, which is exactly what they've been planning for apparently a really long time.
I realize that everyone always has the option to play whatever they want, but without at least token backing from GW, then WHFB is going to die on the vine since there will no longer be new players. And when I bought into WHFB I bought into their being a community of players with which to play the game.
Also, what really, really perplexes me is WHY? If you make a new skirmish game, why kill the rank and file game? The skirmish game would have been a great way to start grass rooting more WHFB players. They start with Sigmar, and eventually some of them will want to try their armies in a more complicated game (and buy more models to do so. More WHFB players would have also gotten into a skirmish game if they didn't feel like they were being forced to do so.
So yes, there is rage, because GW pulled a blatant and big F* U to a loyal and long standing customer base. I hope that anyone who is thinking about getting into a GW hobby changes their mind since GW has shown that they will actively and with forethought screw over their customers, and they will probably do so again.
Ross, I know it is perhaps "cold comfort" to you, but the Mantic company, with their excellent fantasy game Kings of War are right now actively looking for players such as yourself to bring your Games Workshop armies into their system.

Their rules even encourage the use of "fantasy miniatures from other brands" on the table.

Mantic are an extremely young company and their miniatures do reflect this but they are very much invested in the feedback of their players and their rank and file system likely already has rules for the units you have, army lists found here for free.

http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

2nd edition Kings of War is due for release right about now and can be preordered everywhere.
Mantic is going from strength to strength and Sigmar has only helped really cement their position in the market.

Kings of war 2nd ed will be THE place to be for rank and file fantasy for the foreseeable future and I encourage you to join the many great former Warhammer fantasy players being welcomed by the system with open arms.

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Hey, I'm right there with you. Free rules, particularly ones that let you run everything you own already (either with new stats or a "Counts as" entry in the Warscroll compendium) is way above the expected. Opening it up to really allow experimentation is great and really opens up the game to really making it your own.

There are just a few things that I'm not really all that clear on regarding the transition over.
 
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GHOST FINGER wrote:
Guer wrote:
I think that you miss the source of the rage. No reasonable person is upset about a new game coming out, and fluff is just fluff.
However, when you buy a product, you expect there to be merchantability/standing behind what is sold.
I recently (over the past 6 to 18 months) spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on a new WHFB army. I did this to play WHFB, with the understanding that GW would support their product.
Well, they are not only NOT supporting their product, they are actively killing in.
FAQ's removed.
All books pulled from stores (yes, they actively pay store owners to send them back WHFB books, something that store owners had never heard of before.
All WHFB products pulled form online
All community support killed, such as linking to tournaments, prize funding, etc.
When I decide to invest in a product I do not expect the seller to be making secret plans to thwart my investment, which is exactly what they've been planning for apparently a really long time.
I realize that everyone always has the option to play whatever they want, but without at least token backing from GW, then WHFB is going to die on the vine since there will no longer be new players. And when I bought into WHFB I bought into their being a community of players with which to play the game.
Also, what really, really perplexes me is WHY? If you make a new skirmish game, why kill the rank and file game? The skirmish game would have been a great way to start grass rooting more WHFB players. They start with Sigmar, and eventually some of them will want to try their armies in a more complicated game (and buy more models to do so. More WHFB players would have also gotten into a skirmish game if they didn't feel like they were being forced to do so.
So yes, there is rage, because GW pulled a blatant and big F* U to a loyal and long standing customer base. I hope that anyone who is thinking about getting into a GW hobby changes their mind since GW has shown that they will actively and with forethought screw over their customers, and they will probably do so again.
Ross, I know it is perhaps "cold comfort" to you, but the Mantic company, with their excellent fantasy game Kings of War are right now actively looking for players such as yourself to bring your Games Workshop armies into their system.

Their rules even encourage the use of "fantasy miniatures from other brands" on the table.

Mantic are an extremely young company and their miniatures do reflect this but they are very much invested in the feedback of their players and their rank and file system likely already has rules for the units you have, army lists found here for free.

http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

2nd edition Kings of War is due for release right about now and can be preordered everywhere.
Mantic is going from strength to strength and Sigmar has only helped really cement their position in the market.

Kings of war 2nd ed will be THE place to be for rank and file fantasy for the foreseeable future and I encourage you to join the many great former Warhammer fantasy players being welcomed by the system with open arms.


Isn't Mantic actually run by a former GW designer?

As excited as I am about AoS, I fully intend to check out Kings of War as well. I mean, I also will miss rank and file gaming. I'm just hoping Mantic is better at balancing their point system than GW was.
 
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Kings of War is fun, I like it. But it's very simple compared to WHFB (disclaimer: I've only played a 2nd edition game once since the rules became available for download, but I played 1st a bunch).

I easily prefer WHFB (my group has gone back to 3rd edition now that the game is dead) but I can understand the lure of KoW, especially as they've got tournaments set up.
 
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Jon M
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Magius wrote:
Jon_1066 wrote:

...
The "why" is pretty straight forward. It costs money to hold inventory and provide support. That product that doesn't sell is taking up shelf and warehouse space for things that will sell.

However, that doesn't answer the flip side of the question - why, knowing full well that the product would be obsolete a mere few months after release, did Games Workshop not design the End Times model kits and books to be cross compatable with Age of Sigmar (round bases, War Scrolls included alongside the traditional stat blocks, etc), rather than something that would eventually sell through the initial print run (rather than costing them money buying the books back from stores)? Surely, they'd want to get as much out of their investment as they could.

As previously mentioned those end times models are compatible. All the warscrolls are available off the web and the bases are irrelevant (since they have no effect on game play and are purely aesthetic).

If you are asking why they didn't release part of the rules to a new game 18 months before they released the game itself then I think you can work out the answer to that.
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So why gamers who love 8th have to switch game, company or stop playing.
Why not just play 8th? It's not even that dead since the miniatures are available, the fluff is supported by Black Library, the community is still big and aligning around a 9th edition. The stuff that came out for End Times is enough to create scenarios for years.

This is far better situation than say Epic, which I still play and has been officially dead for years.
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Only one thing.

I was palying battle 15 years ago. I fall in boardgames 8 yars ago and play a lot ( wrote for a webzine about boardgame etc...).

I ve bought Age of Sigmar during his releae date. And we play only Age of Sigmar now...15 sessions. An anmazing miniature game...I've done 8 Battalions with proxys or old starter set bought on ebay.
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fatmax66 wrote:
Only one thing.

I was palying battle 15 years ago. I fall in boardgames 8 yars ago and play a lot ( wrote for a webzine about boardgame etc...).

I ve bought Age of Sigmar during his releae date. And we play only Age of Sigmar now...15 sessions. An anmazing miniature game...I've done 8 Battalions with proxys or old starter set bought on ebay.
I agree.
The more you play Age of Sigmar, the more you see just how much better the game is now that all the unnecessary stuff has been cut out.

It's SO easy to pick up and play and the Age of Sigmar app from iTunes puts ALL warscrolls at your fingertips in what ever army mix you choose.
I just wouldn't dream of going back to old fantasy battle now that Sigmar has opened my eyes to streamlined gameplay.

It is just as tactical as it ever was, if not more so, thanks to the great unit special abilities found in almost every warscroll.

I feel sorry for people who just hate it because it changed.

So many hard core guys are like "I would rather sell my miniatures than play a 4 page game".
I say to them "only the rules turn descriptions are 4 pages" "Age of Sigmar the game proper is every single page of warscroll unit description and ALL the special rules described therein".

When you look at Sigmar THAT way... The game is HUGE! And the tactics vast...
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MechaBri Zilla
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One of the complaints I have heard is about the movement being less strategic, I wonder if any of you have tried playing with the old block movement rules from WHFB?

The reason I ask, is that I figure with only 4 pages of rules, how hard can it be to add in additional house rules to modify the game in any way you like.

I personally love the 4 page rule book. It makes it feel to me like you own this game more than any other mini's game out there right now. You can adjust things you like, without the fear that you are treading on some minor rule on page 153 that you forgot about, but is a linchpin for some other army.
 
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Jared Voshall
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Having played half of a full game (5 warscrolls, Skaven VS Skaven, only got 3 rounds in before the store was set to close), there's nothing in the rules that says you can't use movement templates (and, honestly, moving 40 Clanrats in one go without one is a touch tedious), but the more open movement style is visually more compelling (nothing quite like seeing a horde of Skaven swarming through a copse of trees), and feels more realistic (battle now spreads out from the center of the combat rather than sticking to perfect lines as seen in previous editions.

Also, I have recently watched some battle reports for Kings of War and Warhammer 8th edition... and saw the exact same tactics and strategies being used, with very similar results in a very similar style of play, with the exception of having to cross reference Weapon Skill to figure out To Hit and Strength against Toughness to figure out To Wound, and the Strength of the attack might reduce the defender's armour Save, and all sorts of other rules that take up time, but don't really change the way the game plays out.
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King of the Wood
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Played three games. Don't miss block movement at all. Loving the game so far.
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Brian M
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Thornton
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Edition changes can cause some extreme feelings on both ends. I don't know much about the Warhammer/Sigmar split, but I've certainly seen animosity and rage with other games (D&D going from 3e to 4e...ooh, that was nasty).

But I think those going on about the "childish" rants should consider that it goes both ways.

For every conversation I saw where someone was ranting about how 4e had destroyed gaming when they clearly didn't even understand the rule they were complaining about, there was another where someone was being called a "rabid 4e hater stuck in the past" when they were just pointing out a gripe that was not only valid, but was addressed in errata by the company within a few months.

We all filter our views by our own perceptions and experiences, and it can very easy to miss our own prejudices when judging what someone else said.

A site like BGG is for discussing games, which includes negative opinions - not just enthusiastic glee. The forums don't belong only to the fans.
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