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Fire in the Lake» Forums » Rules

Subject: Activated VC units rss

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Lawrence Hung
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Wan Chai
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It seems that activated VC units can only become deactivated during the Coup phase. But many VC operations require to activate them before they can perform them, e.g. Attack, Terror, Tax and Ambush. They can only perform the remaining operations Rally, March and Subvert. Is it what the rules intended?
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Mark Herman
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
It seems that activated VC units can only become deactivated during the Coup phase. But many VC operations require to activate them before they can perform them, e.g. Attack, Terror, Tax and Ambush. They can only perform the remaining operations Rally, March and Subvert. Is it what the rules intended?


I usually stay away from rules questions, but this one is more about intent. Yes and no is the answer.

Yes, once activated the VC unit remains in this state until the Coup phase OR see the Rally Operation (3.31). One of the choices for VC units co-located with a base is to "...OR flip any VC Guerrillas there underground."
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Ladson
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Yes, this is intended.

Rally also allows going underground:


Quote:
• If VC, place its Guerrillas up to the sum of the space’s Population
value (1.3.2-.3) plus the number of VC Bases there OR flip all its
Guerrillas there Underground
(1.4.3).


But frankly, I rarely use it because:

VC guerrillas are cannon fodder. You Rally a pile of them, spread them like a virus across the map especially at places of least resistance (to stay underground), terror to bump Opposition score, a pile of them die because they are exposed. Rally again and repeat.
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Oerjan Ariander
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
It seems that activated VC units can only become deactivated during the Coup phase. But many VC operations require to activate them before they can perform them, e.g. Attack, Terror, Tax and Ambush. They can only perform the remaining operations Rally, March and Subvert. Is it what the rules intended?

Partly correct.

Active Guerrillas can't Subvert (that requires at least 1 Underground Guerilla in the space, though it won't Activate), but they may Attack (since the Attack rule doesn't say that the Guerrillas have to be Underground).

From rule 1.4.3 Underground/Active:
Quote:
NOTE: Unless instructions specify “Underground” Guerrilla, it is sufficient to “Activate” already Active Guerrillas (they stay Active). (...)


Regards,
Oerjan
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Eric Guttag
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Hey Lawrence,

As Scott and Mark note, you can Rally Op VC Activated G's to their Underground side if a VC base is present in the space. (Note also that the NVA Rally Op doesn't have this option.) But as Scott also notes, it's rare you'll do so, as evidenced by the VC bot flowchart that doesn't do that during a Rally Op. If need be, you can also March Activated VC G's into Laos/Cambodia to save them, but otherwise as Scott says, they're pretty much "cannon fodder."
 
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Henrik Reschreiter
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Plus if you rally, and you have none left from off map, you put one from the map, and using an activated one now makes him underground again.
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Lawrence Hung
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Oerjan says what I have in mind. Rule 1.4.3 actually lifts off the restrictions of activating the VC units. Then the VC is more flexible in carrying out its operations and that's what I love and expected to see.
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Only for Attack, which has never had any requirement that the Guerrillas have to be Underground. It does nothing for Terror, Ambush, Tax or Subvert.

/Oerjan
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Lawrence Hung
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I am confused, Oerjan. Do you mean 1.4.3 applies only to Attack? The other three still require underground VC units?
 
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Henrik Reschreiter
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Yes
:)
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Colin Taylor
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
I am confused, Oerjan. Do you mean 1.4.3 applies only to Attack? The other three still require underground VC units?


Hi Lawrence,

Still learning the rules myself, but here are the specific rules that apply:

VC Attack wrote:
if the roll is less than or equal to the number of the executing Faction’s Guerrillas there (whether or not they began Active)

VC Subvert wrote:
It may occur in any 1 or 2 spaces with at least 1 Underground VC Guerrilla and any ARVN cubes.

VC Tax wrote:
They may Tax up to 4 spaces that have Underground VC Guerrillas and no COIN Control

VC Ambush wrote:
At least 1 VC Guerrilla that Marched into or will Attack in each space must be Underground (1.4.3)

VC Terror wrote:
Select any spaces where the executing Faction has at least 1 Underground Guerrilla or, for NVA Terror, NVA Troop cube;


Maybe this helps a little. As you can see, Attack is a little different to the others in its Guerrilla requirements.

Thanks,

Colin
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Jason Sherlock
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Lawrence Hung wrote:
I am confused, Oerjan. Do you mean 1.4.3 applies only to Attack? The other three still require underground VC units?


Hi Lawrence,

Still learning the rules myself, but here are the specific rules that apply:

VC Attack wrote:
if the roll is less than or equal to the number of the executing Faction’s Guerrillas there (whether or not they began Active)

VC Subvert wrote:
It may occur in any 1 or 2 spaces with at least 1 Underground VC Guerrilla and any ARVN cubes.

VC Tax wrote:
They may Tax up to 4 spaces that have Underground VC Guerrillas and no COIN Control

VC Ambush wrote:
At least 1 VC Guerrilla that Marched into or will Attack in each space must be Underground (1.4.3)

VC Terror wrote:
Select any spaces where the executing Faction has at least 1 Underground Guerrilla or, for NVA Terror, NVA Troop cube;


Maybe this helps a little. As you can see, Attack is a little different to the others in its Guerrilla requirements.

Thanks,

Colin


That is a good list Colin. Just to make it more clear.

VC Attack wrote:
if the roll is less than or equal to the number of the executing Faction’s Guerrillas there (whether or not they began Active)


Attack activates ALL of the executing guerrillas in the space.

VC Subvert wrote:
It may occur in any 1 or 2 spaces with at least 1 Underground VC Guerrilla and any ARVN cubes.


NO VC guerrillas are activated to Subvert. It is just the requirement that they are underground.

VC Tax wrote:
They may Tax up to 4 spaces that have Underground VC Guerrillas and no COIN Control


Taxing requires the activation of ONE VC guerrilla in each Tax space

VC Ambush wrote:
At least 1 VC Guerrilla that Marched into or will Attack in each space must be Underground (1.4.3)


Ambush activates ONE guerrilla for each Ambush

VC Terror wrote:
Select any spaces where the executing Faction has at least 1 Underground Guerrilla or, for NVA Terror, NVA Troop cube;


ONE guerrilla in each terror space is activated.
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Oerjan Ariander
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Thanks, Colin

To quote 1.4.3 again:
Quote:
NOTE: Unless instructions specify “Underground” Guerrilla, it is sufficient to “Activate” already Active Guerrillas (they stay Active). (...)


As the rules Colin quote above show, the instructions for Terror, Ambush, Subvert and Tax all do specify "Underground"; the Attack rule does not.

Regards,
Oerjan
 
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Brian Bower
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If I may ask an add on question to this:

about taxation then... Am I thinking correctly in that it's kind of hard to actually tax an LOC? the only time the VC are going to be able to tax an LOC is after a Coup card, due to guerrillas going underground, because:

If I march guerrillas onto LOC , they have to activate, AND
I can't rally to put them underground without a base.

I guess you could move enough of them onto an LOC to put a base there the next rally action.

does any/all of that sound right? it's how I am understanding the rules.
 
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Colin Taylor
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jrog68 wrote:
If I may ask an add on question to this:

about taxation then... Am I thinking correctly in that it's kind of hard to actually tax an LOC? the only time the VC are going to be able to tax an LOC is after a Coup card, due to guerrillas going underground, because:

If I march guerrillas onto LOC , they have to activate, AND
I can't rally to put them underground without a base.

I guess you could move enough of them onto an LOC to put a base there the next rally action.

does any/all of that sound right? it's how I am understanding the rules.


I think you have the rules a little off. You don't automatically flip to Active when you March to an LoC. Only if the piece count (moving Guerrillas + COIN pieces (-bases)) is over 3. And you may not place a base on a LoC (1.4.2).

Thanks,

Colin
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Brian Bower
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ah, wow I overlooked that section entirely. Thanks for the correction!
 
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