Ryan Yan
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This post is mostly a summary from several "off-topic" rule discussions in some rule threads. Sorry for not detailing all individual contributors' names.
We hope this new thread will draw enough attentions from the official authors...

1. Is there a difference between "defeating the High Priestess" and "liberating the Hidden Valley"? (similar question for the Necro Lord and the Necropolis.)

2. What happens if you defeat the faction leader but not all its followers in a solo combat?

3. What happens if you defeat the faction leader but not all its followers in a cooperative attack? (BTW, is it an "attack" or an "assault"? - but this is off topic in this thread - I'll start another thread regarding this)

4. Do you have to defeat all the faction leader's followers to be qualified victorious in the (first three) scenarios by defeating avatar(s)?

5. Do you have to defeat all the faction leader's followers to liberate the place (HV/Np) thus be qualified to use the HV/Np's benefit?

AFAIK, this question arose first in this thread:
"Discard when interacting"
... in which Paul Grogan wrote:
...I'm pretty sure you don't need to defeat the followers (to defeat the leader)
Phil will be able to answer those questions differently if I have it wrong. I'll check with him.
(but there has not been any further response...)

Then Phil Pettifer showed up in this thread:
Tile Placement Question
... after whom three different users asked the question concerned here, with no further responses.

The latest discussion went on in this thread:
Braevalar wins over Life and Death (lvl 6&8, 246 pts, complete VASSAL log)
... in which both Ben Kyo and Magnesi made sound interpretations but leading to inconclusive results:

Benkyo:
My reading is that while you do not need to defeat all the minions to win the scenario, they do all have to be defeated to benefit from the hex. The distinction is that the scenario win requirements all refer to defeating the faction leader, while the Hidden Valley and Necropolis can only be used when "liberated", which matches the wording of the requirement for glades and graveyards - i.e. all tokens defeated.
Neither of the threads you linked make a clear distinction between requirements for winning the scenario vs. "liberating" the Hidden Valley or Necropolis.

Key quotes:
Rules wrote:
To liberate a Magical Glade or Graveyard, you may enter it from its space (as an Action). Fight both enemies. If you do not defeat both, the remaining token(s) remain on the space. They can be attacked again in a later turn. If you defeat the last enemy then you liberate the location.

Rules wrote:
Night rules apply in a Graveyard and Necropolis, but none of the other effects of a Magical Glade, Hidden Valley, Graveyard or Necropolis can be used until they have been liberated.

vs.
Rules wrote:
If you defeated both faction leaders, your mission was successful

Obviously the description of liberating Glades and Graveyards is specific to them, and not the Hidden Valley and Necropolis, but I think the repetition of the word "liberate" is quite a strong link.


syzygia:
Ben, there is another sentence in the rulebook:
Quote:
f a faction leader is defeated during a cooperative assault, remove its figure from the map and the player who initiated the cooperative assault moves to its space.


I think it's a mistake, and it should say "if a faction leader and all his followers..."; but maybe the intention is that if you defeat the leader, the followers disappear.
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Jason Hunt
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This is great.

Also do we need to pay influence to use heroes at the Necropolis and Hidden Valley?



So glad someone is putting all these questions together into one thread.
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Paul Grogan
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I'm sure Phil will give his answers when he gets back from Scotland, where he is currently defeating rampaging monsters and trying to liberate Aberdeen.
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Paulo Renato
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PaulGrogan wrote:
I'm sure Phil will give his answers when he gets back from Scotland, where he is currently defeating rampaging monsters and trying to liberate Aberdeen.


LOL
 
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Phil Pettifer
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Hi all, sorry for the delay in my response.

You only have to defeat the faction leader token, not all the followers. If you do then, once the combat is over, remove all the other enemy tokens and remain in the space the combat took place in. This counts as liberating that space.

Hopefully this clears up any questions but if not (or if there are other questions) then I am now subscribed to this thread so feel free to ask them here. I will try to check it as often as possible
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Federico Porro
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When you remove the enemy tokens killing the faction's leader as you just said, do you take fame for them even if you didn't kill them directly?
And if you attack a leader of a faction, is that an assault? (for heroes for example)
Thank you!
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Federico Porro
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Still no answer?
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Phil Pettifer
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bumpyglint wrote:
When you remove the enemy tokens killing the faction's leader as you just said, do you take fame for them even if you didn't kill them directly?
And if you attack a leader of a faction, is that an assault? (for heroes for example)
Thank you!


Sorry, managed to miss your first reply.

You don't get fame for any enemy tokens that 'get away'.

Yes, an attack on a faction leader is an assault although you do not lose any reputation for it.
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Federico Porro
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PhilP wrote:
bumpyglint wrote:
When you remove the enemy tokens killing the faction's leader as you just said, do you take fame for them even if you didn't kill them directly?
And if you attack a leader of a faction, is that an assault? (for heroes for example)
Thank you!


Sorry, managed to miss your first reply.

You don't get fame for any enemy tokens that 'get away'.

Yes, an attack on a faction leader is an assault although you do not lose any reputation for it.


No problem, thank you for the answer
 
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John Hammershmit
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Okay, just looking for a bit more clarification. Do you need
to block the followers? Or do they vanish the moment
the leader is killed?

So at level 12, a single seige attack of
48 would defeat the leader, giving 36 fame only?

And would defeating the followers reward faction tokens as normal?
And could I exchange say, 6 faction tokens for 18 influence in a single turn when interacting (or 6 fame)? And liberated faction spots dont become cities? Theyre just nothing spots that have been liberated like an adventuresite?

Thanks
 
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Gabriel Honore
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PhilP wrote:
You only have to defeat the faction leader token, not all the followers. If you do then, once the combat is over, remove all the other enemy tokens and remain in the space the combat took place in. This counts as liberating that space.

Quote:
You don't get fame for any enemy tokens that 'get away'.

If you don't get the fame, the most straightforward approach is that you don't get the token.
 
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Magnesi
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He asks if you get the faction tokens when you defeat the followers. When you defeat the leader, you don't defeat the followers, so you get no reward (neither fame nor tokens); but when you defeat a follower you get the rewards as usual (fame and a faction token).

Ryaf wrote:
And could I exchange say, 6 faction tokens for 18 influence in a single turn when interacting (or 6 fame)?
Sure, and any combination of that. Why wouldn't you be able?

Quote:
And liberated faction spots dont become cities? Theyre just nothing spots that have been liberated like an adventuresite?
They certainly don't become cities. Hidden Valley works as a Magical Glade and Necropolis as a Necropolis (night rules apply, and at night rounds, if you start your turn there, then you gain a black mana token).
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Edgar Molas
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In a cooperative assault against a Necropolis or a Hidden Valley, what happens to the characters after successfully defeating the leader?

Here is my guess: the one who initiated the attack stays on that space and the others suffer forced withdraw for ending their turn on a occupied space while PvP is off.

Is this correct?
 
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Trevin Beattie
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EdgarMolas wrote:
In a cooperative assault against a Necropolis or a Hidden Valley, what happens to the characters after successfully defeating the leader?

Here is my guess: the one who initiated the attack stays on that space and the others suffer forced withdraw for ending their turn on a occupied space while PvP is off.

Is this correct?


Rule booklet, p. 5 wrote:
If a faction leader is defeated during a cooperative assault, remove its figure from the map and the player who initiated the cooperative assault moves to its space.


There is no forced withdrawal.
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Edgar Molas
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Oh, ok then. Thanks!

Another question: in a 3 player assault, if the second player kills the avatar does the combat end immediately, leaving the third player out of it?
 
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