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Subject: Race vs Roll: A poll rss

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David B
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Just curious as to which one is more well liked. I know, there are detractors of both who would like to see a choice of "Neither". But this is specifically for those who enjoy at least one of them.

Poll
Which of the two following games do you prefer? I would prefer answers only from those who have played both. Only pick one (I hope that was obvious anyway).
Race for the Galaxy
Roll for the Galaxy
      254 answers
Poll created by pfctsqr
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Matt Brown
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Initial plays have me leaning towards Race. I feel like doing things to get more dice is more heavily weighed as an ideal strategy in Roll due to the randomness of the dice.
 
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Josh Lloyd
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I side with Roll. On an aside, it is interesting that 26 people have voted but not one has thumbed the post.
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Chris SC

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I never understood that theory. I'm not going to thumb every single post I happen to read or even enjoy. I thumb things that I think are particularly pointed or important.

Either way I hated race, but find roll generally enjoyable (still not my favorite game, but at least easy to teach/play).
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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I'm interested in a follow up poll:

Poll
Is there room for both Race AND Roll on a gamer's shelf? Are they different enough to own both?
Yes
No
Other (explain below)
      118 answers
Poll created by JohnnyDollar
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Josh Lloyd
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I tend to agree, I don't thumb everything, but if 26 people found it important enough to vote on I would have thought the odds of thumbing are higher. It is just interesting to me, if I take the time to "vote" on something I found it interesting enough for my time so I'll give a thumb.
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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savagec wrote:
I never understood that theory. I'm not going to thumb every single post I happen to read or even enjoy. I thumb things that I think are particularly pointed or important.


Don't thumbs add to the "hotness" of a thread?
So it's like a group effort to get as wide an audience as possible for, in this context, a poll that would benefit from a wide audience.

And, if it's a Geeklist you like etc, it helps get it on the hotness front page so more people can like it too.
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Pete Goch
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
I'm interested in a follow up poll:

Poll
Is there room for both Race AND Roll on a gamer's shelf? Are they different enough to own both?
Yes
No
Other (explain below)
      118 answers
Poll created by JohnnyDollar


Yes. While the objectives of each game are similar/the same the means of obtaining them are very different. The analysis in each game is distinct.

I think the two games would only be "too samey" for those who confuse/conflate the artwork/theme of a game with its gameplay.
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Jeremy Heisey
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
I'm interested in a follow up poll:

Poll
Is there room for both Race AND Roll on a gamer's shelf? Are they different enough to own both?
Yes
No
Other (explain below)
      118 answers
Poll created by JohnnyDollar


This is exactly my problem with this post: the games appear similar when you first encounter them, but they are completely different. My first two or three plays I thought they were the same game. They are not at all.
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RCH RCH
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I went with Roll.

I will admit I only played Race once. That said, it felt too similar to San Juan for me to want to own both of them and I liked San Juan better.

Roll, on the other hand, has a different feel to it and plays up to 5 people (rather than 2-4). I just didn't see the need to own both San Jaun and Race, but owning San Juan and Roll seems fine as they will both have their opportunities to hit the table.

I feel both games could have a place in a gamer's collection. I only own about 80 games. If I was one of those people that owned 200+, I could see Race, Roll, and San Juan all having a place in my collection, I just don't want to own that many games.

Yet.
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Samo Oleami
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RFTG is one of those rare engine building MPS games I actually like - the most in fact. And it has to do with the ability of making strategic decisions on the spot. So on one hand there's none of optimising which would arise from open information (Puerto Rico), but the game isn't lost in tactical point salad as you need to make some long term decisions on the spot and this involves some risk taking and thus tension.

RollFTG has none of this, it's in fact much more tactical. Coupled with being more accessible and you get a game very similar to all other games coming out lately. Okay maybe a bit better as the Race's pedigree both mechanical and thematic makes RollFTG still kinda distinct. Just nothing special.

Is it worth owning both?
I see them very distinct, so yeah, would be doable. Actually wouldn't be surprised if gamers would use RollFTG to lure people into later playing RFTG.
I don't think I'll every play RollFTG again. Very interesting redesign, better than FFG's similar attempts, resulting in a more generic game, like FFG's similar attempts.
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Rodney Clowsewitz
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savagec wrote:
I never understood that theory. I'm not going to thumb every single post I happen to read or even enjoy. I thumb things that I think are particularly pointed or important.


Dude, thumbs are free stop acting like your thumbs are super valuable. Use Geekgold for the posts you find important or particularly pointed.
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Russ Williams
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Poll
Do you always thumb a post if it has a poll which you respond to?
Yes, and I think people should thumb a post if it has a poll they respond to.
Yes, but I don't think there's any obligation to thumb just because you replied to a poll.
No.
      96 answers
Poll created by russ
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Warren Smith
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TheJRMY wrote:
This is exactly my problem with this post: the games appear similar when you first encounter them, but they are completely different. My first two or three plays I thought they were the same game. They are not at all.
Very true!

However, there may not be room enough for both on a gamer's shelf if that gamer takes theme into account when making a purchase decision. Further, I would think that the size of a gamer's collection would impact the value of owning both for that gamer; larger collections can more readily absorb similar games.
 
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Darryl with one "R"
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Hatepig wrote:
savagec wrote:
I never understood that theory. I'm not going to thumb every single post I happen to read or even enjoy. I thumb things that I think are particularly pointed or important.


Dude, thumbs are free stop acting like your thumbs are super valuable. Use Geekgold for the posts you find important or particularly pointed.

Speak for yourself! There are people on this very thread who have sold their thumbs for GG in the Geek Madness tournament!
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Jesse Rockwell
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Collection wrote:
I went with Roll.

I will admit I only played Race once. That said, it felt too similar to San Juan for me to want to own both of them and I liked San Juan better.

Roll, on the other hand, has a different feel to it and plays up to 5 people (rather than 2-4). I just didn't see the need to own both San Jaun and Race, but owning San Juan and Roll seems fine as they will both have their opportunities to hit the table.

I feel both games could have a place in a gamer's collection. I only own about 80 games. If I was one of those people that owned 200+, I could see Race, Roll, and San Juan all having a place in my collection, I just don't want to own that many games.

Yet.


Exactly my feelings. Well said. I've played Race and own San Juan. It was a no brainer to get Roll instead. I've refrained from voting due to this. If I didn't have San Juan, I'd probably own Race instead of Roll.
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Ryan Peddle
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I picked Roll after playing both games. I found Roll easier and quicker to pickup and easier find my strategy.

The very distinct colours of the dice helped with processing the data and mathing out my options.
 
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Michael F
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Even though I think Roll is the best game of 2015 so far (You could argue it's 2014, but w/e), I just don't see it overtaking Race unless there are some quality expansions that get released. Even then, you can only have so many tiles before the bag gets too full, and if we start getting extra mechanisms like being able to attack each other and prestige points, I'm out.
 
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Samo Oleami
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newkillerstar27 wrote:
I just don't see it overtaking Race unless there are some quality expansions that get released.

Like Caverna overtook Agricola because it's less "stressful", similar thing might happen to RollFTG and RFTG.

A year ago I predicted that the ever increasing demand for nonstressful nonconflict gaming will change all games and their sequels into (semi/kinda) cooperative games. It seems I was off - they will turn into tactical victory point salads.

I don't like it, but the trend is into eliminating all stress including one arising from competition and learning the game. I'm waiting for VPS co-op (any day now!). cool
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Russ Williams
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sgosaric wrote:
I don't like it, but the trend is into eliminating all stress including one arising from competition and learning the game.

Why does that matter to you? You're often saying that you don't game for the competition, and you're not competitive, and you game only for the socialization, talking, etc. (E.g. I just saw this from you yesterday.)

But in any case, there are plenty of competitive games being published if you want them!
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Samo Oleami
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russ wrote:
You're often saying that you don't game for the competition, and you're not competitive, and you game only for the socialization, talking, etc. (E.g. I just saw this from you yesterday.)


It's one of those gaming paradoxes.

Games which eliminate stress that players can inflict on one another also eliminate the social factor and all it remains is competing.

A game that is confrontational can be played for the social enjoment of it, regardless of the outcome (i.e. the art of being a dick). A game that blocks conflict and stress (and usually also theme/narrative) cannot be played for any other reason than trying to win (usually by optimising the hell out of that sucker).

russ wrote:
But in any case, there are plenty of competitive games being published if you want them!


Of course. Read my complaint as a social commentary. This is a bit off topic.

If we remove stress from gaming, we just postpone it, the reason for stress isn't addressed. It will come back when least expected and it will be nasty.(People playing "peaceful" games were the one causing most discomfort when they eventually flipped out, and they did.) If you confront what causes stress inside of you, you learn to deal with it not only in the game, but also in real word and thus, you're more concious of yourself, your surroundings and kinder to both. Gaming can help us learn how to deal with stress in a social situation, and because "it's just a game", its easier to do. However, the trend is now the opposite - to help people never deal with their insecurities and nurture them forever. Stress helps us grow, with no stress...
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Jonathan Porter
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I have not played Roll for the Galaxy, and while I wouldn't turn down learning it, I don't think I would enjoy it nearly as much as Race for the Galaxy.
 
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It's harder for me to get in games these days, so I don't bother with Roll since I'll just play other people's copies, which is also the setting I'd get to play it in anyways (where others already own the game).

My copy of Race + first 3 expansions, and a dupe copy of base + 1st exp are still on the other side of the country. I already bought them, played them many times when I had more gaming opportunities (did get my $$'s worth), but wouldn't buy them again today. In fact, I feel like this with board games in general now.


Really do wish they came out with a digital version of Roll For The Galaxy. I'd pay up to $50 for a version with good AI opponents, like with Keldon's AI. I'm sure folks would decry how silly it is to pay almost as much $$ for a 'cyber' version of the game, and not be able to feel, touch, and physically roll the die, but I buy games to play them. Not just to touch them, and in my scenarios, they simply won't get played enough. Not by a long shot.
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Adam Taylor
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In my experience people, who already like Race tend to be less impressed by Roll. Whereas those who've never played Race or didn't like it take to Roll far more readily. I'm in the former camp.

I suppose expectation is an issue: When you have X: The Dice Game, there are certain things that we're used to seeing - typically that it will deliver a similar gameplay experience in less time, with less complexity and in a smaller box. Roll does none of these things because it's not RftG: The Dice Game, it's something else entirely.

Also there's a question of sunk cost, both in literal terms and in terms of time expended. I have almost all of the Race expansions (all except BoW) and have played it a lot and begun to work out the synergies and strategies - I'm not keen to start all over again.

Roll seems to be a really interesting game that I'm sure many people will enjoy but I'm an old dog and I'm just not willing to learn its new tricks.
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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DicingWithDearth wrote:
In my experience people, who already like Race tend to be less impressed by Roll. Whereas those who've never played Race or didn't like it take to Roll far more readily. I'm in the former camp.


Interesting, let's test that hypothesis cool

Only for those who LIKE Roll (not necessarily more than Race though, just LIKE it for its own sake), AND have played Race and like Race:

Poll
I like Roll.
I have played Race.
I like Race.
I played Race first.
I played Roll first.
      51 answers
Poll created by JohnnyDollar


Now, I think the answers will be biased towards having played Race first because Race was published earlier. But even so, if the hypothesis is correct, there should still be a very low number of people who played Race first and liked it, and also like Roll.
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