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Subject: Why do you pay the player to your left? rss

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Carl Frodge
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The rulebook states "The auction winner gives the ingots that he bid to the player on his left, takes the relic card and places it face-up in front of him."

I don't understand this thematically or mechanically.

I could understand if you payed the bank, or the player who started the auction, but paying the player on your left makes no sense.
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bruno faidutti
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I agree that it doesn't make sense thematically, but it is interesting as a game mechanism.

Paying to the bank means that there must be another game system to bring money back to the players, and as a general rule I add a new system only when I can't deal without.
Paying to the player who starts the auction would be severely unbalancing, since some items are much more valuable than others.

Paying to the player on the left means there's no real balance issue, it keeps the money in the game, and it makes for interesting dilemmas when you're in a bidding war with your left or right neighbor.

But, yes, it's thematically weak....
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Russell Martin
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Thematically I can't explain it.

Mechanically this keeps money circulating in the game. There is no way of getting money from "the bank" during the game (other than the Pawnbroker way of doing so), so if you paid your auction price to the bank, then people run out of money and have nothing left to bid with.


Edit: Ninja'd by Bruno.
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Carl Frodge
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That's what I figured, it just kind of keeps the money there. Thanks for the replies, guys!
 
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The root of all evil... but you can call me cookie.
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agentkuo wrote:
The rulebook states "The auction winner gives the ingots that he bid to the player on his left, takes the relic card and places it face-up in front of him."

I don't understand this thematically or mechanically.

I could understand if you payed the bank, or the player who started the auction, but paying the player on your left makes no sense.


This kind of worries me about the game. Keep in mind I've not actually read the rule much less played the game (no GenCon attendance for me) so I'm only going with what I've seen in the BGG video and some threads like this one.

The reason I am worried is I love the game Boomtown, however shortly after getting that game (way back years ago when it first came out) we noticed that you can easily win the game by sitting to the left of the player to would consistently bid too much for an item. We implemented the "Buffalo Nickle" variant whereby you pay the person who passes first.

Now granted Boomtown is NOT a closed economy like Warehouse 51, so that person in Boomtown can continue to make money and be the top bidder over and over again. Perhaps in this game funds don't transfer hands as much and therefore that person runs out of money.
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Alex Sagar
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I think the strategies and choices brought about by the "pass to the left" aspect of the auction mechanic are interesting and they could be very appealing to some players.

In the event that the lightness of theme is unpalatable a simple auction variant along these lines could be substituted instead.

SET UP

Stock the general supply with five money chits and remove a pawn token. Alternatively, the first round of the game starts with zero money chits in the general supply.

OPEN BIDDING

On their turn a player can choose to enter the auction and place a bid or exit the bidding.

When a player exits the bidding they are presumed to be devoting their time towards money making opportunities outside the auction room. In contrast the players involved in the bidding have to remain at the auction and as a consequence of their fixed location they have no time to spend earning additional income.

When a player purchases an artifact the money is placed into the general supply. During the course of an auction if the turn of play reaches a person that has exited the auction that person may take 1 money chit from the general supply, providing that the general supply has the necessary money chits to complete the transaction.

The money chits in the general supply are kept separate from the money chits used to service the pawning of any artifacts. It is comprised solely of money chits actively generated in the auctions.

If the general supply can’t cover the transaction it is assumed that the money making opportunities for the time period have been exhausted. So exiting early instead of making a speculative bid that can be increased later could be a productive strategy.

The resulting dynamic will require the players to consider both the potential returns for entering an auction and for exiting an auction. This will provide any players that have exited the auction with a vested interest in the ongoing development of the auction, benefiting player engagement instead of relegating players to thumb twiddling on the sidelines.

Exiting early instead of making a speculative bid to remain in the auction and see the “lay of the land”, which may or may not result in a subsequent bid, could be viewed as a productive strategy

If a player assumes that two players want an artifact (which may be an artifact they also want) it might be more opportune to exit early and derive multiple money chits from a lengthy bidding war.

Alternatively, a player involved in an auction may bid high in order to avoid a lengthy bidding war and deny any players that exited the auction early the chance to earn multiple money chits.

CLOSED BIDDING

Each player conceals a number of money chits in their hand, which can be zero. Then the players open their hands and reveal their bids simultaneously. The player with the highest bid (or the winner of a tie in case of a tied result) takes the artifact.

Any money chits in the winning players bid are shared equally between any of the players that bid zero, representing income earned from other opportunities. Any remaining chits from an even split are placed in the general supply.
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jianjun ma
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I can't figure out how the card“padora's box”works.Can anyone explain it to me?
 
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Brian Brokaw
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Paying the player to the left didn't play well on the game I was able to play this weekend. (A young player spent all his ingots early giving the player to his left a pile to fend off the other 2 players with. Young player came in last, player to his left came in first.)

I kind of like the bidding mechanism in Michael Schacht's game Mogul:

1. When it is your turn to bid, if you want to stay "in" you add 1 ingot to the cup.
2. When it is your turn to bid, if you pass, take all ingots currently in the cup.
3. Last player "in" (after all others have passed) wins the auction.

(This is similar to No Thanks but not exactly.)
 
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Raviv Nagel
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Did anyone try to split the money equally between the other players?
(Remainder can be kept in the middle of the table until the next auction is over)
 
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Francesc Sardà
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raviv wrote:
Did anyone try to split the money equally between the other players?
(Remainder can be kept in the middle of the table until the next auction is over)


It could be a great idea...
It works perfect in Hollywood Blockbuster by Dr Knizia
 
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Phil K
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I absolutely love this mechanic of passing money to your neighbor!

1) a closed economy is useful in this game as there are so many cards to bid on

2) Timing is much more interesting. You really have to pick and choose what cards/colors to go for, knowing that you might not get money back until later. Along with this, choosing which pile to flip from is EVERYTHING; I love the strategy involved in having 4 decks, vs one big deck that's much more random. Again, you really have to bide your time.

3) pushing up the bid: in many auction games, you push up the bid on cards you don't necessarily want, just to make the eventual winner spend more money (yes, it's a little trollish, and not always my favorite way to play). In Warehouse, you push the bid to make the money flow to a certain spot (especially if the money will come directly to you!). Otherwise, you push the bid because you really want the card, or because you're pretending it's not counterfeit.

I do think it's better to pass all the money to the one neightbor than to try to distribute it evenly. It's simpler to enact, but much trickier to strategize around.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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thoia wrote:
The reason I am worried is I love the game Boomtown, however shortly after getting that game (way back years ago when it first came out) we noticed that you can easily win the game by sitting to the left of the player to would consistently bid too much for an item.

That was the main problem I had with Boomtown, too, and it will likely be the same here. I also think it would be better to split the money evenly among the other players. As someone said, it does work perfectly in Knizia's Dream Factory.
 
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Joshua Wolfe
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My group split the winning bid as raviv suggested and it worked perfectly. When you only pass to one player, you only worry about bluffing one player. Plus, your ability to participate in the auctions is limited by the bidding behavior of the person to your left. By spreading the ingots around, there is a natural wax and wane of bidding opportunities between the players.
 
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Chris Gallo
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In Dream Factory you split evenly and keep the remainder for the next auction right? What if you just dealt the money paid for the winning bid starting with the player on your left. This way in some instances they still get more money. Like in a four player game if you bid four and won the player to your left would still get two gold while everyone else only for one but at least they got something to keep the money spread around.
 
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