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Subject: Balance of Terror Strategy rss

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Daniel Shaharuddin
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I was originally going to use my Q op 3 list which got me second till I realized if my opponent guesses my maneuver I will loose all my upgrade abilities. My list was

Resource Fleet Captain

R.I.S Vo 16
Styles 3
Julian Bashier 4
EM Pulse 5
EM Pulse 5
(Both Ferangi)

I.S.S Defiant 24
Borg Queen (Add Borg) 7
Borg Matrix Shields 9
Quark (Enhanced Hull Plating) 2
Second of Five 3

I.S.S Avenger 16
Kor (Extra Crew) 6
Fleet Captain (Klingon) 5
Rebellion 0
Amat'Igan 3
Elizabeth Shelby 2
William T. Riker 3
Tom Paris 4
Sakonna 2
Type 8 Phasers 1
Dorsal Weapons Array 0
Enhanced Hull Plating 4

120 total

I'm assuming Gul Madred with crew that prevents him from being discarded will be seen due to the "Guessing" rule. Maybe a Vo with Madred and Centurion. That way you can discard about 2/3 of your opponents captains. Thoughts?
 
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John Victor
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"IF THE PLAYER CORRECTLY GUESSES the
maneuver, the active ship cannot use any of its card
abilities (including Actions and Attacks with
secondary weapons) or perform any free Actions for
that round.

The active ship may still perform an Action on its
Action Bar and/or perform an attack with its Primary
Weapon."

So, the ship gets no benefits from any card text. Not even passives or ship ability. The ship essentially becomes a generic ship with a generic captain (but with higher skill), and no upgrades (obviously a named ship has named stats) for the round.

This sort of makes me want to take no upgrades. Just a swarm of ships that can hit, not relying on upgrades or combos. Use those saved points for good skill captains in case they can be used, and maybe cheap admirals for the skill boosts.

It also means I'm probably going to try and keep a ship like Avenger close enough to Gul Madred's ship to keep guessing it's maneuver and shutting him down.
 
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Mark Bell
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Did you use one of the fleet builders to make this list? Because it's like 132 points with all the out of faction penalties. Also you can't put Klingon Fleet Captain on Kor - he's not on a Klingon ship.

I'm guessing you meant the Independent (Klingon) Fleet Captain, since that reduces your crew costs and adds crew slots, but you're still at 124 points.
 
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Brian Johnsen
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Per the scenario rules, each ship gets to take a (potentially discounted) Upgrade face-down for 3SP. The extra 4SP are probably being discounted by that rule.
 
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Mark Bell
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It's only 1 - EHP on the Avenger but nothing else qualifies for a discounted facedown card (5 point max, must be same faction as ship).

Besides, OP said this was his list for Q OP3, which didn't grant any discounts.
 
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John Victor
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MormegilND wrote:
Per the scenario rules, each ship gets to take a (potentially discounted) Upgrade face-down for 3SP. The extra 4SP are probably being discounted by that rule.


If the face down upgrade costs less than 3 points, is it still required to pay the full 3 points?

The way I read the rule, the answer is yes.
 
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Mark Bell
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That's how I read it - if you didn't have a 3+ point qualifying upgrade on a given ship, you're not required to take the face down card for that ship.
 
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John Victor
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It could still be worth paying the premium for the surprise value of the card.

It doesn't say it takes an action to flip over the card. Just flip it over when you're ready to use it. Basically, it's just like a face up card, but you're opponent can't see it.

It would be great to flip and suddenly have an extra maneuver your opponent wasn't expecting. Or a sudden aux like with Brunt.


...except if you have to spell out the card on the fleet sheet for them to review. Dang. I wonder if it'd be ok to mark it as 3 points but leave it blank until revealed.

Oh well, it was a nice idea until I remembered that
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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wiegeabo wrote:
It could still be worth paying the premium for the surprise value of the card.

It doesn't say it takes an action to flip over the card. Just flip it over when you're ready to use it. Basically, it's just like a face up card, but you're opponent can't see it.

It would be great to flip and suddenly have an extra maneuver your opponent wasn't expecting. Or a sudden aux like with Brunt.


...except if you have to spell out the card on the fleet sheet for them to review. Dang. I wonder if it'd be ok to mark it as 3 points but leave it blank until revealed.

Oh well, it was a nice idea until I remembered that



With Kirk's face down cards, we always left it as a blank on the sheet that you carry around with you to matches and just made a note and gave it to the event organizer/judge with what the card was. It seemed the most fair thing to do since it would be kept hidden from your opponent until it was revealed, but the judge would know what it was so there was no worry about people trying to change it between games.

Still, it only is really a secret for the first game. There is nothing stopping your opponent from telling the next person what it was anyway. Cards being face down really just prevent your opponent from using abilities that effect your upgrades as most of them require it ot be a face up card.
 
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Joshua Covert
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wiegeabo wrote:
It could still be worth paying the premium for the surprise value of the card.

It doesn't say it takes an action to flip over the card. Just flip it over when you're ready to use it. Basically, it's just like a face up card, but you're opponent can't see it.

It would be great to flip and suddenly have an extra maneuver your opponent wasn't expecting. Or a sudden aux like with Brunt.


...except if you have to spell out the card on the fleet sheet for them to review. Dang. I wonder if it'd be ok to mark it as 3 points but leave it blank until revealed.

Oh well, it was a nice idea until I remembered that


Pre-WORF, Andrew Parks had ruled that you could write something like "Hidden Card" in the slot on your sheet, and show it to the TO to confirm that you keep the same card throughout the entire event. Unless WORF officially changes it, that seems a fair way to handle it.
 
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John Victor
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Cool. Works for me. There are a couple of cards I'm interested in.
 
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John Victor
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So, our venue's match is tomorrow, and it's using the condition that if you use a card to see or set a maneuver, you can't make a guess against that ship.

With that in mind, I've ended up combining and tweaking my two BoT builds, dumping all the peeking cards. Only keeping Lure because it's just good to have.

U.S.S. Enterprise [22]
- Jean-Luc Picard 8 (Captain) [5]
- - Balance of Terror [3]
- - - Multi-Adaptive Shields [0]
- Type 8 Phaser Array [2]
- Systems Upgrade [1] (crew slot)
Ship Total: 33 SP

Alpha Hunter [26]
- Alpha Hirogen 6 (Captain) [4]
- - Balance of Terror [3]
- - - Lure [0]
Ship Total: 33 SP

I.K.S. Ch'tang [22]
- Independent (Klingon) Fleet Captain [5]
- - Stalking Mode [1]
- Martok 8 (Captain) [5]
- Balance of Terror [3]
- - Ambush Attack [0]
- Kerla [1]
Ship Total: 37 SP

Enterprise NX-01 [16]
- Clark Terell 2 (Captain) [1]
- Enhanced Hull Plating [0]
Ship Total: 17 SP

Resource: Fleet Captain [0]

Fleet Total: 120 SP

Generated by Utopia
http://comatoes.github.io/staw-utopia/


This build does assume that Systems Upgrade gets the Fleet Captain benefit being in the crew slot. If not, I'll tweak things.

Basically, I'm not going to worry about taking Aux on the NX, and go ahead and let Hull Plating load it up if necessary. Which is why I took Terrell over Moore. And, if I'm not worried about clearing Aux, it's harder to guess the ship's maneuver. Then it becomes a nuisance ship. If they can't hit it, they waste shots. If they ignore it, it gets in the way and picks at shields.
 
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Brian Johnsen
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wiegeabo wrote:
This build does assume that Systems Upgrade gets the Fleet Captain benefit being in the crew slot. If not, I'll tweak things.

Systems Upgrade is a "?" Upgrade that can fill a Crew Slot, not a Crew Upgrade, so it does not get a price reduction.

Edit:
See http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26...

Unlike EMH and The Doctor, Systems Upgrade does not say "counts as either a Crew, Tech, or Weapon Upgrade" so it does not actually become that type of Upgrade. It remains a ? Upgrade.
 
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John Victor
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That's what I couldn't find.

Easy enough to fix. As much as I want to keep her, I'll just drop Kerla.
 
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Robert George
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MormegilND wrote:
wiegeabo wrote:
This build does assume that Systems Upgrade gets the Fleet Captain benefit being in the crew slot. If not, I'll tweak things.

Systems Upgrade is a "?" Upgrade that can fill a Crew Slot, not a Crew Upgrade, so it does not get a price reduction.

Edit:
See http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26...

Unlike EMH and The Doctor, Systems Upgrade does not say "counts as either a Crew, Tech, or Weapon Upgrade" so it does not actually become that type of Upgrade. It remains a ? Upgrade.


More specifically: http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=56...

 
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John Victor
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Well, redid things, throwing in a few freebies.

U.S.S. Enterprise [22]
- Jean-Luc Picard 8 (Captain) [5]
- - Balance of Terror [3]
- - - Multi-Adaptive Shields [0]
- Type 8 Phaser Array [2]
- Systems Upgrade [2]
- Elizabeth Lense [0]
Ship Total: 34 SP

Alpha Hunter [26]
- Alpha Hirogen 6 (Captain) [4]
- - Balance of Terror [3]
- - - Lure [0]
- Denera Pel [0]
Ship Total: 33 SP

I.K.S. Ch'tang [22]
- Independent (Klingon) Fleet Captain [5]
- - Stalking Mode [1]
- Martok 8 (Captain) [5]
- Balance of Terror [3]
- - Ambush Attack [0]
- Klag [0]
Ship Total: 36 SP

Enterprise NX-01 [16]
- Clark Terell 2 (Captain) [1]
- Enhanced Hull Plating [0]
Ship Total: 17 SP

Resource: Fleet Captain

Fleet Total: 120 SP


If there is a tech disabler on the other side, I guess I could put Lense on the NX to bring the Hull Plating back since I won't be able to enable it with all the Aux I might put on it.
 
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John Victor
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So, my build went 0-2 with a third match bye. But they were both really close matches that came down to the last round.

First match she dropped cloaked mines, but I was able to swing around them, Hunter going one way, the rest going the other. The NX-01 did exactly what it was supposed to do and pulled a lot of fire towards it while stacking up Aux for the Hull Plating. No ships were lost, although we were both close to losing them at time. We also were doing a terrible job at guessing. At the end, we both had one mission token. On my last move, I went for a shot, so she was able to guess, and win by 10 points. If I'd just flown away instead, we would have had a roll off.


Next game, had to avoid cloaked mines again. But he was able to move his scout cube with fleet captain just close enough the first round to peg Martok with guided charges and put on a warp core breach. Which triggered the next round. So I was down a ship at the start of round 2. But, still a close match. I was able to hate on his Martok/Keldon with Ahab Picard, and eventually take it down. That and my mission tokens gave me the lead. On the last round, I guessed the right speed but wrong spin direction of his scout. If I'd guessed right, it might have saved the Tinyprise because he wouldn't have been able to use the guided charges on it. So his last shot flipped it back in his favor and I lost by about 20 points. I had three shots on his cube at the end (Tinyprise shot first, before dying) but he had way too much defense on that cube with his Ahab Picard hating my Feds, Hood Riker, and shielding that negates a hit.
 
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Jon Ginever
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I've got mine coming up in a couple of weeks, I am considering the following

USS Thunderchild
Robert DeSoto
Fleet captain (Indy Klingon)
Riker (Hood)
Tom Paris
Sulu (Tinyprise)
Face down card - dorsal phaser array

USS Voyager
Picard 8
Dmitri Valtane
Chekov (Reliant)
Face down card - High energy sensor sweep

USS Excelsior
Clark Tyrell
Face down card - Mr Spock
Type 8 Phasers
 
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Xander Fulton
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wiegeabo wrote:
So, our venue's match is tomorrow, and it's using the condition that if you use a card to see or set a maneuver, you can't make a guess against that ship.


That sort of seems a bit against the intent of the rule, *especially* as Sloan just arrived as an option in the event immediately prior to this one.
 
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