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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Timing rules rss

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Daniel Merrill
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I've come up against a few timing questions that I couldn't find a ready answer to.

1) When do you flip the quest to stage 1B? Is it during set up or during the first quest phase? I had a card that stripped my resources appear when I flipped the quest to 1B, but if it happened during setup, I didn't have resources at that time.

2) In multiplayer, do things like escape tests generate their own action windows? Normally, you can't take actions (except responses) between one staging card appearing and the next, but are all cards revealed and then you resolve their effects, or do you reveal one, resolve it, and then reveal the next?

Thanks for the help.
 
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Ira Fay
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xophnog wrote:
1) When do you flip the quest to stage 1B? Is it during set up or during the first quest phase? I had a card that stripped my resources appear when I flipped the quest to 1B, but if it happened during setup, I didn't have resources at that time.
Immediately after finishing the instructions on 1A, you go to 1B (unless directed otherwise by the quest).

xophnog wrote:
2) In multiplayer, do things like escape tests generate their own action windows? Normally, you can't take actions (except responses) between one staging card appearing and the next, but are all cards revealed and then you resolve their effects, or do you reveal one, resolve it, and then reveal the next?
You need to read the specific rules on escape tests, but in general, in multiplayer, you reveal one encounter card, resolve it, reveal the next one, resolve it, etc. There are no action windows between when you start resolving the encounter cards and when you finish resolving them.
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Daniel Merrill
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ira212 wrote:
There are no action windows between when you start resolving the encounter cards and when you finish resolving them.

I am specifically interested in cards (or maybe keywords) that interrupt the normal flow of staging. With an escape test or hide test or other such, can you use willpower boosting actions then or are you stuck with what you began staging?

Another question:

When a location requires a travel action to travel there, is it still in the staging area while you are performing that action or does it get removed from the staging area as part of performing that action?

(I suspect that it is still in the staging area until you complete the travel action.)
 
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Jonathan Nicol
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xophnog wrote:

I am specifically interested in cards (or maybe keywords) that interrupt the normal flow of staging. With an escape test or hide test or other such, can you use willpower boosting actions then or are you stuck with what you began staging


I watched Mitch and Dan's progression playthrough of The Dead Marshes last night, and in one round they boosted Eowyn's willpower at the start of the quest phase so that she could use that extra willpower if they drew an Escape treachery during staging.

At first this confused me since normally you would wait until after staging to boost her ability, but I realised they were doing this since there would be no action window during staging in which to trigger her ability.
 
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black spark
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Normally actions can be taken at the beginning of the staging step and at the end of the staging step but not during the staging step.

There are scenario-specific occurrences that could open an action window in the midst of the staging step. Such instructions are found in the rules insert for the scenario. As far as I can tell, you may at that time give a questing character a willpower boost, but you may want to wait for the action window at the beginning of the quest resolution step.

In the scenario The Dead Marshes (Shadows of Mirkwood cycle) an Escape Test may be initiated in the midst of the staging step; after committing characters to the Escape Test but before dealing encounter cards for the Escape Test, actions may be taken.

In the scenario A Shadow of the Past (The Black Riders saga expansion) a Hide Test may be initiated in the midst of the staging step; after determining the total Threat of the discarded encounter cards but before resolving the Hide Test, actions may be taken.

Regarding Travel effects, my current understanding is that you resolve the Travel effect and then move the Location from the Staging Area to the active position.
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Daniel Merrill
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It seems like I've been playing these scenarios correctly, then, in regards to timing windows at least.

I just came upon another question:

If you empty the encounter deck in the staging step of the same quest phase that you also complete the Scout Ahead side quest, does that mean that your side quest completely wiffs and you don't get to remove a card or set up the next 4 cards of the encounter deck?

Also, on cards that say, "Surge. When Revealed: Do X," do you "Do X" before you surge or do you surge and the do X? My thinking is that you would first surge and then do X, based on the effects of the cards I see like this. Is this correct? If I want to use Test of Will to cancel the "Do X" part, do I get to surge first to see if I'd rather cancel the second card?
 
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black spark
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Scout Ahead: "Response: When this stage is defeated, the first player searches the top X cards of the encounter deck for 1 non-objective card worth no victory points and adds it to the victory display. Put the remaining cards back in any order. X is the number of players in the game plus 4."

"If the encounter deck is ever out of cards during the quest phase, the encounter discard pile is shuffled and reset back into the encounter deck." -Core Rulebook, page 25.

In the staging step, the encounter deck is reset if depleted. Then in the quest resolution step, there will always be cards in the encounter deck when Scout Ahead is defeated.

Also note that a Side Quest can only be the current quest for the duration of the quest phase (The Lost Realm Rulebook, page 3). Thus Scout Ahead can only be defeated in the quest phase, and if the encounter deck is depleted in any other phase it will be reset at the beginning of the next quest phase.



"Resolve the surge keyword immediately after resolving any when revealed effects on the card." -Core Rulebook, page 24

If you want to use Test of Will to cancel a When Revealed effect on a card with Surge, the When Revealed effect is canceled before the second card is revealed.
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Ian Boggs
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black spark wrote:


"If the encounter deck is ever out of cards during the quest phase, the encounter discard pile is shuffled and reset back into the encounter deck." -Core Rulebook, page 25.


I've always played this, and seen many other people play it like this as well, as you only shuffle the discard pile back in if you need to draw another card from the encounter deck during questing, not straight away. I think OCTGN does it like this, but not 100% on that

So for example, if there are two cards left in the encounter deck in a two player game they are both revealed during questing and empty the deck (assuming no surge or other effect). Then, there will be no cards to use as shadow cards in combat.

As Scout Ahead asks you search the deck, if the deck is empty it whiffs as far as I can tell. The text doesn't indicate you draw, so it doesn't get refilled and the card would whiff (if you assume you only shuffle the discard back in if you need to draw a card).

Should the discard pile get shuffled in straight away, as soon as it is empty, instead of only when you need to draw a card?



 
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black spark
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I could be mistaken on this, but my current understanding is that the encounter discard pile gets shuffled immediately after resolving the last card from the encounter deck. This seems to be further supported in the FAQ:

"Q: When I reveal the last card of the encounter deck, do I immediately reset the quest deck before resolving the staging of the revealed card?
"A: No. Resolve the staging of the revealed card, including any 'When Revealed' effects, before resetting the quest deck, if able. If you are unable to completely resolve the staging of the card because it instructs you to interact with the encounter deck in some manner, then reset the quest deck and finish resolving the effect." LotR FAQ version 1.7, page 16

(Obviously, the encounter deck is being reset, not the quest deck.)
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Daniel Merrill
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black spark wrote:

"Resolve the surge keyword immediately after resolving any when revealed effects on the card." -Core Rulebook, page 24


I was going to say that this rule makes The Ring Draws Them a lot less dangerous, but then I went back and looked at the card.

"Surge.
When Revealed: At the end of the phase, each enemy in the staging area engages the first player. If the One Ring is exhausted, this effect cannot be canceled."

Good thing I played it the other way as it had the same effect.
 
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