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Subject: Play 3-Draw 3 Variant rss

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Andre Oliveira
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Well, seeing the problems most "spam" factions arise (robot, zombie and wizard), I've pondering if having an extra card and action/minion could help the others.

On each player's turn, he/she gets instead of the regular action+minion
1 free minion play
1 free action
1 free minion or action

Then he draws 3 cards at the end instead.

//ghost's cards would consider 3 cards as if it was 2.

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Since this reduces the game length, it might be good for an impatient group of 4 players.
 
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Daniel West
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
I think it's important to remember that for all of the spamming factions, there is a drawback. All three of those factions have weaker than average minions, and Robots and Zombies have very few card draws.

On top of that, so many factions have some extra ways to play minions (Mad Scientists, Killer Plants, Mythic Horses, Fairies, Insmouth, etc.) That most players can easily get one in their deck along with another faction that does something else. When you and your friends play, do you ever draft factions?
 
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Andre Oliveira
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
I got only base atm. I'm waiting for Awesome 9000 and Science to arrive.

We do draft, as per the rules.

This variant would make everyone stronger, but would reduce the relative advantage of the play extra stuff cards.
i.e. gaining a 4th card play from 3 card per turn is a 33% "turn" gain.
Compare this to the 50% improvement 2 to 3 cards per turn.

It also allow more "combos" and quicker games thereof.

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I played 4 games in a 1v1.

First zombies became much weaker (since the game ended quicker)
Dinosaurs and Robots became somewhat godly, due very high base breaking potential, specially combined.
Ninjas were also problematic (due the temptation to play 2 minions per turn, rendered several cards useless)

Over all it was much easier to break a base, and game length dropped in 30-50%.
 
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Robert Seater
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Ashland
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
I like the idea in principle, since it would help improve the fun of players who end up holding hands of mostly actions.

Maybe even try:
1 free minion
1 free action
may discard 1 card for 1 additional minion or action
still only draw 2 cards per turn

That would change the game less, but still let people cycle through their cards a bit faster and make some surprise moves.
 
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Bryan Lariviere
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
On paper sounds good but in practice no. You actually ave no clue how much damage that does to many factions. Thee extra card actually hinders those factions that already play extra minions and actions, and ten you have robots that swarm but that extra minion helps them even more.

I'll give an example, I was playing elder things-Wizards. Bad combo because by already drawing so much with wizards i was hindering Elder things ability to force opponents to draw madness. There is a card that says "Each opponent may draw a madness card, for each one that does not you may draw a card" Now when you are not drawing a lot it is tempting to take that one madness card to not let them draw, HOWEVER since i was drawing so much with wizards they figured "What is one more card?"

you have to really take into account balance, you are now helping decks that are not meant to do objective X perform objective X. There are some combos that need a second turn to set up, but with this extra action, you can win a game turn 1 with the proper faction combo and card in hand, giving them no chance to ruin your plan.

On paper sounds good but you really are breaking the game by giving players a free extra card to play.


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oh and a Robo-Plant combo with this rule in play.
Micro-bot Fixer, into alpha
Blommom, Hoverbot x3
Get three extra minions due to hoverbot's ability.
One of those 3 minions is a zapbot, get another 2 or less power minon (Let's say sprout)
Play insta-grow (Your extra actions) Play Nukebot.

we are now looking at a base that has 53 power. 25 on two different bases and microbot guard kills someone's minion With most bases being around 22 break point, in one turn you just took 2 bases.
Lets say you broke Rhodes plaza mall and Factory 436-1337 factory gives you an automatic 7 (due to it being 25 you have 5 vp form the ability and 2 for winning (Microbot Alpha, Nukebot and warbot) the rest go to rhodes plaza which gives you 1 vp/minion played there (when it breaks)
25 on Factor, 24 on plaza. 7 from factory and 7 from plaza, 14 VP.

This includes 2 Microbot fixers, one gained from hoverbot the other played as your first minion)

You may already have 2 or more VP by this point. So whatever your VP is +14. Even better, you may be the first person to score and you went form 0-14 you can relax now and just grab the win in a couple turns. (Or less because you draw extra cards now.

This is not even god hand, just a good one.

Oh and lets say the turn prior you played overgrow on the Central Brain. So its breakpoint is 0. just put one of your minions this turn there. You get 7+6+(4 or 3 or 2), 17 VP (or 16 or 15, regardless you got 15(+) VP this turn)
=====
 
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Andre Oliveira
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
Gashnaw wrote:
On paper sounds good but in practice no. You actually ave no clue how much damage that does to many factions. Thee extra card actually hinders those factions that already play extra minions and actions, and ten you have robots that swarm but that extra minion helps them even more.

I got 3 xpacs (AL9000, science DF and pretty-pretty) but didn't try the variant with those.


Yeah, this variant broke too many things, even if it was funny to see such super epic plays.
------------

I got an idea for another less-chaotic but more strategy focused mode but that's offtopic.
 
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Andre Oliveira
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
Team D20 wrote:
On top of that, so many factions have some extra ways to play minions (Mad Scientists, Killer Plants, Mythic Horses, Fairies, Insmouth, etc.) That most players can easily get one in their deck along with another faction that does something else. When you and your friends play, do you ever draft factions?

In x3/x4 games we do draft with random pool of 8 factions.

On 1x1 we just try to pick stuff in the same tier of power (ironically last game a pirate-ape utterly crushed a zombie-plant due a super buffed first mate).

Team D20 wrote:
I think it's important to remember that for all of the spamming factions, there is a drawback. All three of those factions have weaker than average minions, and Robots and Zombies have very few card draws.


While Robots have a lower power mean, they have the regular 5x1 4x2 3x3 4x2 non microbot minions - between microbots fixer, reclaimers and zap / hoverbots they can easily play the other 3 microbots (because alpha is sronger than the average minion) without "losing power" due extra play.
They lose no power but just lack in the versatility department.

Zombies just lose power on their "would be 3 - Tenacious z", for their obviously OP ability. The extra minions they get from They Keep Comingx2 is perhaps the biggest offender (only rampage and space super armor can compare - and usually lose, since zombie can revive this card). Zombies are mostly passive, but they can revive mean minions.

Wizards really have reduced power (all non 2 power minion have "-1" - but they can play 2 extra minion with their summon action to recover it) - this one have the real deal in terms of power drawback, they are also as passive as the zombies.
 
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Bryan Lariviere
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
desocupado wrote:

In x3/x4 games we do draft with random pool of 8 factions.

On 1x1 we just try to pick stuff in the same tier of power (ironically last game a pirate-ape utterly crushed a zombie-plant due a super buffed first mate).


I do random draft to avoid Robo-plants to happen again. 1 game was broken and i never want to do that again. even in a 3 man match it was too strong.
 
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Andre Oliveira
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Re: Triple Mayhem - Playing/Getting more cards
Gashnaw wrote:
desocupado wrote:

In x3/x4 games we do draft with random pool of 8 factions.

On 1x1 we just try to pick stuff in the same tier of power (ironically last game a pirate-ape utterly crushed a zombie-plant due a super buffed first mate).


I do random draft to avoid Robo-plants to happen again. 1 game was broken and i never want to do that again. even in a 3 man match it was too strong.

I beat it in 1x1 with a zombie-horse (because I could move and had some luck on the deck). But it was a close match.


----
I haven't been using this variant. didn't find it balanced at all.
 
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