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Star Wars: Imperial Assault – Twin Shadows» Forums » Rules

Subject: Biv Bodhrick "Close and personal" combo rss

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Sébastien Boissonneault
Canada
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With this character, (in a campaing) if they buy Final Stand and Stay Down , could they be combined in the same attack?

Final Stand:
->: Deplete this card to recover stress equal to your Endurance, move a number of space up to your Speed, and perform "Close and Personal" without using an action or suffering the strain cost. Then, you suffer 2 damage and become stunned.

Stay Down:
2 strain: Exhaust this card after you resolve "Close and Personal". If the target was not defeated, perform the melee attack from "Close and Personal" again, targeting the same figure.

Close and Personal:
-> 2 strain: Perform an melee attack using 1 red and 1 yellow die. Then, perform 1 additional atack with a range weapon targeting the same figure.

Stunned:
You cannot attack or voluntarely exit your space.


First case: can Stay down be used during Final Stand, because the attack would be resolved before becoming stunned? Also would that be a double use of the character sheet power, which cannot be used twice per activation?

Second case: Or could the player do Close and Personal, then Stay Down, then Final Stand? But would that count as a double use of the character power?

In any case if it can be combined it would give the character 3 attacks with 1 action for the first case, and 5 attacks with 2 actions for the second case.

And if the character bought the Vibrobayonet (+1 damage, pierce 1, bleed) for the melee attack of Close and Personal. This guy could take out Vader in two activations or less.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Elk Ridge
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1) I think so, since you are resolving Close And Personal then becoming stunned. So Stay Down can be used to effectively interrupt Final Stand. You still become stunned at the end of it all, but you will your 4 attacks off first (and I can't find anything in the RRG that states otherwise).

2) Yes, you can Close And Personal, then Stay Down, then Final Stand. It's not double use (or triple use even) of special ability, it's use of Final Stand. Remember the Golden Rule, card overrides rulebook. If that wasn't allowed, then how could you ever use Stay Down, since that's a "double use" of the same ability?

4XP skills are quite awesome, for pretty much all the classes.

-shnar
 
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Ralph Robinson
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Per the new/clarified attack pool rules from Twin Shadows, you cannot use a weapon's abilities (like Vibrobayonet) in Campaign when using a separate dice pool (as you are with Close and Personal). So, your Vader scenario isn't possible.

First Case: I will argue against being able to perform Stay Down after Final Stand. The result of Final Stand (that is, after the attack is fully resolved--Stay Down is NOT an interrupt) is you being Stunned, and per Stunned rules, you cannot perform an attack or exit without performing an action to discard. Meaning, you can't perform the attack from Final Stand. You are also unable to perform Close and Personal twice, since (unless specifically called out otherwise, like with Stay Down), you can only use a special action ability once per activation. Final Stand doesn't specify "again" as Stay Down does. That said, you're not fully performing Close and Personal twice--just the "melee attack" from it, so it wouldn't count against this rule. However, being Stunned should invalidate this.

Second Case: Also invalid, because you're using Close and Personal twice, and Final Stand doesn't say "again". You'd be fine using Close and Personal then Stay Down, though.
 
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Ralph Robinson
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shnar wrote:
1) It's not double use (or triple use even) of special ability, it's use of Final Stand. Remember the Golden Rule, card overrides rulebook. If that wasn't allowed, then how could you ever use Stay Down, since that's a "double use" of the same ability?

-shnar


Stay Down doesn't say to perform Close and Personal again; it says to perform the melee attack from Close and Personal.

Compare this to Masterstroke, which specifically calls out being able to use "Command" again:

 
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Eckhard
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tropofarmer wrote:
Per the new/clarified attack pool rules from Twin Shadows, you cannot use a weapon's abilities (like Vibrobayonet) in Campaign when using a separate dice pool (as you are with Close and Personal). So, your Vader scenario isn't possible.


The Vibrobayonet states that the +1, Pierce 1 and Bleed is gained by the melee attack of Close and Personal. (also I do not see how that would keep him from killing Vader...)

So here is what I think:

First Case: It's all about triggers. So you have:
Then, you suffer 2 damage and become stunned.
Exhaust this card after you resolve Close and Personal.

In my interpretation both triggers happen at the same time (after Close and Personal is resolved). So the following rule should apply:
RRG, page 9 wrote:
• When Rebel players wish to resolve multiple effects at the
same time, they collectively decide the order of resolution.

Which means it should be possible.

Second Case: I would argue, that you are not performing the special action Close and Personal during Final Stand, since you are not using an action. But I am not sure about this.
 
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Ralph Robinson
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MoiHaha wrote:

The Vibrobayonet states that the +1, Pierce 1 and Bleed is gained by the melee attack of Close and Personal. (also I do not see how that would keep him from killing Vader...)


Oops! Didn't know that. Then yeah, I'd agree that this is valid for a Close and Personal attack, for sure.

I am now agreeing with your interpretation of simultaneous actions for the First Case.

For the Second Case, you ARE performing "Close and Personal" again, which is against the rules. In the case of "Final Stand" you simply just are not using an action to do so, meaning you could then perform two standard actions (move, rest, etc.) in the same activation.
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Mike Kaufman
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I think I agree with Ralph it specifically says you cannot "perform special actions" more than once in the rulebook. Even though you aren't doing Close and Personal itself during Last Stand it does say to "perform Close and Personal."

I think the 1st case is definitely kosher.

I sent a rules question to FFG about both to make sure.
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Peter Sanzén
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Just a quick opinion here about the rulebook saying that you cant perform two special actions.

It also says that imperial figures cant perform mutiple attacks but the E-web has assault and Vader has brutality. Elite officers have executive orders.

In other words this is a case of card overriding rule in my opinion.
 
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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sanzen wrote:
Just a quick opinion here about the rulebook saying that you cant perform two special actions.

It does not say that. It says you can't perform the same special action twice.
Action, RRG wrote:
A figure can perform each special action only once per
activation.

sanzen wrote:
It also says that imperial figures cant perform mutiple attacks but the E-web has assault and Vader has brutality. Elite officers have executive orders.

The rules does not say that exactly. The rules say A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation. Brutality is only one action, so it can be used although it can attack twice. Also, Assault explicitly overrides the restriction. (Also, any figure can perform more attacks outside of their activation.)

I used to interpret and say it as A non-hero figure can use only one action containing an attack per activation, but one case I just thought about yesterday breaks it: You can use Pounce without being able to perform the attack part. If the Nexu was not able to perform the attack when using Pounce (the attack part is not optional, Nexu has to perform it if he can), the Nexu can still use the normal attack action in the same activation. (Rules as Written)

The restriction on special actions is separate and applies to all figures. I don't think the rules about attacks are applicable even for drawing analogs.
 
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Eckhard
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a1bert wrote:
I used to interpret and say it as A non-hero figure can use only one action containing an attack per activation, but one case I just thought about yesterday breaks it: You can use Pounce without being able to perform the attack part. If the Nexu was not able to perform the attack when using Pounce (the attack part is not optional, Nexu has to perform it if he can), the Nexu can still use the normal attack action in the same activation. (Rules as Written)


When will that ever happen? As you said the Nexu has to perform the attack of the Pounce. It also only has two actions. So if it chooses to move to get into range (it can't be in Range to perform an Melee attack) it cannot attack anymore due to action restriction.

I'll give you that there is probably the possibility to do it somehow using a command card (in Skirmish) or an Agenda card (in the Campaign). But why should you do it? With the Nexu being Mobile and having 6 Movement I cannot construct a situation where it would be senseful to do so.

Wait sorry for contradicting myself. I think I found one. Campaign the Nexu pounces to attack Mak, who disengages. The Imperial than uses an Agenda card from his sleeve, which gives him some additional MP (didn't check if that exists but if not it's thinkable to come in the future) the Nexu rereaches Mak and can then attack the Bothan...

Ok, cleared that up in my head now. Sorry for wasting your time by posting this ;-)
 
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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You're right. It can not happen without help from other cards/abilities. With my limited skirmish experience I could come up with Fleet Footed, which gives 1mp. I don't think it's possible in the campaign (currently), the one agenda card I remember seeing had an end-of-round effect.
 
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Shaun Peer
Canada
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I actually sent this question to FFG games a while back. here is the official response from oneof the game developers:

Rules Question:
Hey FFG, I need a definitive response on a rules clarification regarding Biv Bodhrik in our campaign game. So here is the situation. I use close and personal first action,strain for 2 movement, then I use final stand for my second action. My IP contends that I cannot perform a second 'close and personal' during my 'final stand' action because I cannot perform 'close and personal' twice. I contend that I'm not performing 'close and personal' twice, I'm performing 'close and personal', then I'm depleting 'final stand'. Which of these is correct?

Hi Shaun,

You are correct. You may use both “Close and Personal” and “Final Stand” in the same activation since they are not actually the same action. “Final Stand” includes a use of “Close and Personal,” but since the overall action is different it doesn’t fall into that restriction.

Thanks!

Paul Winchester
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
pwinchester@fantasyflightgames.com
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