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Subject: Rules questions rss

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Gene Lin
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Can you use more than one forge token on a given purchase - e.g. to reduce command from 3 to 1?

Can you use more than one cache token on a given purchase?

The rules say that a maximum of 5 units can end their turn in each area. Does this include enemy units?

What happens when you assign damage to a routed unit and it does NOT exceed the units health?

Since bastions cannot be routed, assigning damage to a bastion less than its health does nothing - correct?
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Giliar Perez
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As far as I know, it's NO for the first three questions, and you cannot assign damage to routed units unless there's no bastion and you have only routed enemy units in the combat.

And I believe the answer to the last question is "Correct".
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Mihai Stanimir
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1. Can you use more than one forge token on a given purchase - e.g. to reduce command from 3 to 1?
No in your example. But you can use one forge token to reduce command and one for paying for the unit.

2. Can you use more than one cache token on a given purchase?
No. Only one per unit.

3. The rules say that a maximum of 5 units can end their turn in each area. Does this include enemy units?
I don't know of such a rule. When using the Advance Order, you cannot move more than 5 units in the same area. The number of units in an area is limited by the planet's capacity (or 3 for void) and is checked after each order is executed.

4. What happens when you assign damage to a routed unit and it does NOT exceed the units health?
Nothing. But there have to be no standing units.

5. Since bastions cannot be routed, assigning damage to a bastion less than its health does nothing - correct?
Correct.
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Niko
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No. The only time you can use two forge tokens to buy one unit is when you want to buy a unit that costs a forge token and also want to reduce the command by one.

One cache token per unit/building, but if you buy two units you can spent two cache tokens.

No. You can end the movement with up to 5 friendly units plus however many enemy units are allowed by the area limit in the same area. Of course after combat the surviving units are subject to the limit in the area.

Nothing. Giliar is correct that you must assign damage to unrouted units (or bastions) first, but once those are all gone any damage that doesn't kill the routed unit of your choice has no effect.

Yes.
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Colin Sham
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That's exactly what a Cylon would say!
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sufertashu wrote:
3. The rules say that a maximum of 5 units can end their turn in each area. Does this include enemy units?
I don't know of such a rule. When using the Advance Order, you cannot move more than 5 units in the same area. The number of units in an area is limited by the planet's capacity (or 3 for void) and is checked after each order is executed.

Bolding is mine. And the bolded part is slightly incorrect.

Rules Reference Page 3 - Advance Order wrote:
The active player can exceed each area’s unit capacity while resolving an Advance Order, but can never end the movement with more than five units in a single area.

So just to be very clear, you move whatever number you want, so long as you don't end with more than 5 in a single area.
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Mihai Stanimir
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Ridel wrote:
So just to be very clear, you move whatever number you want, so long as you don't end with more than 5 in a single area.

Are you sure about this? I'd say you can move 5 units in the area even if there were units there to start with.
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Niko
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sufertashu wrote:
Ridel wrote:
So just to be very clear, you move whatever number you want, so long as you don't end with more than 5 in a single area.

Are you sure about this? I'd say you can move 5 units in the area even if there were units there to start with.
You can definitely end the move with 5 of your units and whatever enemy units are already there.

Based on the rule Colin quoted I'd say it's also pretty clear that at the end of the move you can never have more than 5 of your units in an area, whether they already where there or moved in there.

However, I don't think there's any area with a unit capacity of 5 so why would you want to go beyond that if you aren't attacking in the first place? The distinction between moving 5 guys in and ending the move with 5 guys in an area (while looking pretty clear to me) just doesn't seem that important if the only benefit is to intentionally kill of your guys.
 
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Mihai Stanimir
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
The distinction between moving 5 guys in and ending the move with 5 guys in an area (while looking pretty clear to me) just doesn't seem that important if the only benefit is to intentionally kill of your guys.

It may make sense in some unusual cases:
- when you need to "replace" weaker units with stronger units;
- when all units of a type are on the board and you plan deploying such units at a different location later.
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Niko
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sufertashu wrote:
Ze_German_Guy wrote:
The distinction between moving 5 guys in and ending the move with 5 guys in an area (while looking pretty clear to me) just doesn't seem that important if the only benefit is to intentionally kill of your guys.

It may make sense in some unusual cases:
- when you need to "replace" weaker units with stronger units;
- when all units of a type are on the board and you plan deploying such units at a different location later.
Sure, but the rules text "can never end the movement with more than five units in a single area." seems pretty unambiguous to me.

Since the highest capacity is 4 you can also still kill of at least one unit anyways.
 
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Mihai Stanimir
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Sure, but the rules text "can never end the movement with more than five units in a single area." seems pretty unambiguous to me.

I missed that. Sure, it's not a big deal anyways. But looking at both rulebooks, I still interpret that you can end up with more than 5 units in an area.
 
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Björn
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Since the highest capacity is 4 you can also still kill of at least one unit anyways.


There's actually one planet with a unit capacity of 5 on Tile 2A (but it's the only one).

sufertashu wrote:
But looking at both rulebooks, I still interpret that you can end up with more than 5 units in an area.


Friendly and enemy units combined, yes, of course. But not just friendly units. The section Niko quoted makes it really clear (at least for me). How do you interpret the "can never end the movement with more than five units in a single area" part?
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Mihai Stanimir
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Niddi77 wrote:
How do you interpret the "can never end the movement with more than five units in a single area" part?

I assume the rule was put there so that you don't attack an area with 10 units at once, because there would be no way for the defender to win.

However, comparing this to the Learn to Play book, there it says "A player may move any number of units with a mobilize order, but a maximum of five units can end their movement in each area." This would suggest that the limit only takes into account the units moving. So I would interpret the Rules Reference book cite in a similar fashion. When it says you can't end the movement with [...] units, its talking about the movement of units, not the movement as a game step (which would say "at the end of the movement step, no more than 5 friendly units can be in the same area"). At least this is my interpretation, but I'm not 100% sure that's what they meant though.
 
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Björn
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Ok, I get where you're coming from. The wording in the Learn to Play Book does make it sound like this only takes moving units into account, not units already deployed on a planet. But you could also say these stationed units are also part of the movement as they could theoretically have moved. They just chose to move 0 areas (I know, this is nitpicking).
 
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Mihai Stanimir
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Niddi77 wrote:
But you could also say these stationed units are also part of the movement as they could theoretically have moved. They just chose to move 0 areas (I know, this is nitpicking).

Yes, that crossed my mind. I guess some official ruling would clarify this.
 
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Colin Sham
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sufertashu wrote:
I assume the rule was put there so that you don't attack an area with 10 units at once, because there would be no way for the defender to win.

However, comparing this to the Learn to Play book, there it says "A player may move any number of units with a mobilize order, but a maximum of five units can end their movement in each area." This would suggest that the limit only takes into account the units moving. So I would interpret the Rules Reference book cite in a similar fashion. When it says you can't end the movement with [...] units, its talking about the movement of units, not the movement as a game step (which would say "at the end of the movement step, no more than 5 friendly units can be in the same area"). At least this is my interpretation, but I'm not 100% sure that's what they meant though.

The sentence you quoted is only read with your interpretation because of the word 'their'. This in the same sentence that references to an Advance Order as a Mobilize, for a game effect that is restricted to you killing off your own units through Unit Capacity.

Additionally, the Golden Rule states:
Quote:
The Rules Reference is the definitive source for all rules information. If something in this document contradicts information from the Learn to Play booklet, this Rules Reference takes precedence.


But if we were playing together, I would let you have your interpretation. Enjoy!
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Mihai Stanimir
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Ridel wrote:
sufertashu wrote:
I assume the rule was put there so that you don't attack an area with 10 units at once, because there would be no way for the defender to win.

However, comparing this to the Learn to Play book, there it says "A player may move any number of units with a mobilize order, but a maximum of five units can end their movement in each area." This would suggest that the limit only takes into account the units moving. So I would interpret the Rules Reference book cite in a similar fashion. When it says you can't end the movement with [...] units, its talking about the movement of units, not the movement as a game step (which would say "at the end of the movement step, no more than 5 friendly units can be in the same area"). At least this is my interpretation, but I'm not 100% sure that's what they meant though.

The sentence you quoted is only read with your interpretation because of the word 'their'. This in the same sentence that references to an Advance Order as a Mobilize, for a game effect that is restricted to you killing off your own units through Unit Capacity.

Additionally, the Golden Rule states:
Quote:
The Rules Reference is the definitive source for all rules information. If something in this document contradicts information from the Learn to Play booklet, this Rules Reference takes precedence.


But if we were playing together, I would let you have your interpretation. Enjoy!

Well, it's such a small thing anyway. No idea why you'd have rules in the Learn to Play rulebook overrulled by rules in the Rules Reference. Sounds like a safety measure, but it's a bit confusing. Should I hide the Learn to Play rulebook?

But I wonder what is the design reason behind not being allowed to intentionally kill your own units to deploy them again at a different location (with a Deploy order). It only makes things more complicated I think.
 
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