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Enemy Action: Ardennes» Forums » Rules

Subject: GS Traffic jams and 13.82 bridged hexsides rss

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Chris Clarke
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Last sentence of 13.82, bridged hexsides, combined with traffic jam rules:
2 mechanized units force a single retreat from across a bridge. The enemy unit retains it's ZOC retreats one space. One mechanized advances across the bridge. Traffic jams tells us other units can cross bridged hexsides as if they were unbridged. 13.82 tells me the second unit cannot advance over the bridge. (Traffic jams says "AS IF crossing an unbridged river". The hexside is, in fact, bridged, thus 13.82 applies). Thus second mechanized unit cannot advance, correct?
 
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Mendel Lius
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Hi,

Yes it can :
- 1st unit crosses the bridge
- Traffic jams : no more units can cross the bridge
- 2nd unit crosses the river as if it was unbridged
- one unit crossed unbridged riverside, no more can do so.

So, ont the 16th only 2 units can cross, the second one having to stop its advance (if it was a 2-hex retreat, it would not be able to follow the first).

If were to on the 16th everybody would be albe to cross the bridge.
 
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Chris Clarke
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But what about 13.82 last sentence?

The hexside is bridged so I would think the second unit cannot cross because it's entering an EZOC, regardless.
 
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George Triantafyllidis
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The traffic jam rules in this example are irrelevant.Since the defender retains its control in the hex across you can advance only with ONE unit
The question really is if the traffic jam rule refers to advance after combat as well as to movement.I.e if you had pushed them back two hexes and thus freeing the hex across from enemy control,could you then have advanced both units two hexes forward or the jam rules forces the second to advance only across and stop(treated as unbridged).And If again you were attacking with 3 mech the thirs couldn't move at all?
I do not know if this has been clarified somewhere
 
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Chris Clarke
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Fabvier wrote:
The traffic jam rules in this example are irrelevant.Since the defender retains its control in the hex across you can advance only with ONE unit


This is what I assumed but wanted clarity.

Fabvier wrote:
The question really is if the traffic jam rule refers to advance after combat as well as to movement.I.e if you had pushed them back two hexes and thus freeing the hex across from enemy control,could you then have advanced both units two hexes forward or the jam rules forces the second to advance only across and stop(treated as unbridged).


I would play the latter. Treat as unbridged which means must stop after fording. 14.12 Traffic Jams doesn't say "moving" or "advancing". Just "crossing" which to me means at any time.

Fabvier wrote:
And If again you were attacking with 3 mech the thirs couldn't move at all?
I do not know if this has been clarified somewhere


13.82 is clear on this. Only one advance across unbridged.
 
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Mendel Lius
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Ok you're right, I had overlooked rule 13.82 regarding enemy ZOC.

If I try to make things clear regarding advance after attack across a bridge :

1-hex retreat, retreating unit still with ZOC, traffic jams or not
- only 1 unit advances using bridge (because of rule 13.82, presence of enemy ZOC on the other side of the bridge)
- 1 unit advances "unbridged"(rule 13.82)

1-hex retreat, retreating unit without ZOC, traffic jams
- only 1 unit advances using bridge (because of traffic jams)
- 1 unit advances "unbridged"(rule 13.82)

1-hex retreat, retreating unit without ZOC, no traffic jams
- no advance limit because of bridge

2-hex retreat, traffic jams
- only 1 unit advances using bridge (traffic jams rules), can advance 2 hexes if mech
- 1 unit advances "unbridged" cannot advance 2-hexes even if mech (rule 13.82)

2-hex retreat, no traffic jams
- no advance limit because of bridge

Do you agree?

Cheers,
Mendelius

(edited after following posts, thanks guys!)
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Chris Clarke
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First case: With or without traffic jams, 1 hex retreat by a unit with an EZOC, only one attacking unit can advance, whether bridged or unbridged, I surmise. If it's bridged, 13.82 says only one (even if friendly occupied). If unbridged, it's ALWAYS only one.

If the unit retreats one hex and it doesn't have an EZOC, with no traffic jams, any number can cross the bridge. With Traffic Jams, one over the bridge, then one unbridged, and that's it (third, fourth, etc. could not cross).

(I think this is what you were saying, you just left out the EZOC)

Other than that clarification, that's how I see it.

There's many more cases you can build, but as far as these cases are concerned, I'm pretty confident. Now if only I could remember simple things like restricting German Armies from crossing their boundaries. I mean, c'mon! When I noticed that I'd done that I literally smacked my head.
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Kurt R
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All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
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aram12 wrote:
There's many more cases you can build, but as far as these cases are concerned, I'm pretty confident. Now if only I could remember simple things like restricting German Armies from crossing their boundaries. I mean, c'mon! When I noticed that I'd done that I literally smacked my head.

Yeah, but with a game as intricate as this it's gonna happen. I have to learn to just shrug those off as , eh, whatya gonna do?

I started my video playthrough tonight (2nd attempt as I didn't like the first), so I'm sure you'll see me make a lot of those types of mistakes. I mean, I was playing almost daily at the end of July and now a month later I'm surprised at how rusty I've gotten.
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Chris Clarke
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I took about a two week break myself, and jumping in without a refresher was rough.
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