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Subject: Played a couple times, Uninfected never stood a chance. How to change this? rss

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Dan Mixer
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Bought the game on the basis of the sterling reviews, got it out and played a couple 5-player games during our weekly game night.

Both games the Uninfected never even got going. The general consensus was that playing as the Infected was boring because it was obvious you were going to win, and playing as the Uninfected was frustrating because it was obvious you were going to lose.

One game the Uninfected never even got a cube on a single Event! The other game wasn't much better. Having to essentially roll a 5 or 6 on two out of three dice as the only way to effect Events was a game killer for all.

Unfortunately this game will probably never see the light of day as all players were in agreement that it was a waste of valuable game night minutes.

I'm curious if anyone has any house rules to make the game playable?


 
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Were you not advancing the event when you completed a task?
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David Pereira
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I think its playable and tense. A good hidden traitor game. I've played ir with different counts and different players and the only Card which in my opinion its really unbalanced to the humans its just one final event (but on the other hand rises the level of paranoia).

Last Friday I won as infected and the humans almost won for about thirty minutes and ir was close for both, very tense final with everyone feeling ir could have gone either way.

What you are saying its very extreme so are you right you're playing ir well? There are others threads on this topic and some Rules were not being followed.
 
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Dan Mixer
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"Were you not advancing the event when you completed a task?"

....hmmm.. I'll have check on that, I don't think we were. A lot of them were failing anyway
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Passing tasks is the most important thing to do. For a handful of dice, you can prevent damage and place a cube on the active event. This is much more effective than than failing a task and and spending your dice on repairs and lone wolf (which is very unreliable).

To pass tasks consistently, you need to manage your dice pool carefully. Generally, you should pick OUT if you have 2 dice fewer dice, or if you are confident that everyone else who picked IN will complete the task.

There are some tasks with high difficulty and low consequence (like 10 difficult and 1 consequence). With these tasks, you really might consider just having everyone sit out and allow the task to fail because the consequence is so minor - you really don't want to burn all your dice and then have a card come up with 2 or 3 consequence.
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Paul Newsham
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Icedanno wrote:
"Were you not advancing the event when you completed a task?"

....hmmm.. I'll have check on that, I don't think we were. A lot of them were failing anyway


Don't worry, you wouldn't be the first person to miss this rule. From your description it sounds like you were only placing cubes as a result of the Lone Wolf action.
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Brent Mair
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You definitely need to reread the rules. Something is wrong.
 
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Chris Plumlee
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Yes, make sure you are placing event cubes at the proper time, after a sucessfull task.

I have had the exact opposite problem that you have, out of about 15 plays the uninfected win most of the time. I have had to play with official variants to make it easier for the infected.

Its been a very fun game. Also, I think it is quite a challenge to play as the infected to pull out a win.

We lone wolf very infrequently, most actions are repair actions, or give order actions, to get dice into other peoples hands.

Only lone wolf if you have a lot of dice and very little is damaged.

I hope this helps.
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Jim Jones
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I think you were only adding cubes to the events when Lone Wolfing it. You CAN do that, but you also need to add a cube every time you complete a task.

With that combination, the uninfected can advance every player's turn. These leave the infected with a choice (that they can't communicate openly with any other potentially infected players). Do I reveal early and halt their progress? Do I tried to keep up the ruse of being uninfected while trying to throw a monkey wrench in their tasks here and there to try to halt their progress? Or do I soft reveal (mess up a lot of tasks and repair actions so that it is very suspicious) so that I can signal to the other infected and risk quarantine?

What I find hilarious about this game is that every group thinks one side or the other is over powered and destined to win. The game is slightly skewed towards the unrevealed infected because of the negatively weighted dice, but a coordinated group of uninfected can make short work of the board. At the same time, a coordinated group of uninfected can be decimated by infected that know how to mess with the dice economy and reveal at the right moments to inflict the maximum amount of damage.

There's a tight balance here (and some variants to change things up). If one side or the other seems too easy, you may be missing some rule.

Not added a cube to the event card each time a task is completed is a common one.

Another is not advancing the forced vote cube every time there is suspicious activity.

Another is forgetting that you can retrieve ANY combination of dice up to you die limit (not just two strong and two weak dice). Retrieving only weak or only strong dice as a means to back up and argument or force the rest of the players into a bad spot can be killer (i.e. is a forced vote coming up? How much harder will it be if you and the other infected just took 8 total strong dice from the pool?).

Another one is to make sure to remove the appropriate task cards from the deck for the specific player counts.

All of these matter more than you might suspect.
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Evan Derrick
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plumbob72 wrote:
We lone wolf very infrequently, most actions are repair actions, or give order actions, to get dice into other peoples hands.

Only lone wolf if you have a lot of dice and very little is damaged.


I did see one game where the Uninfected players, who were on the ropes with only a few cubes left on the Final Event card and everything about to go down in flames, managed to Lone Wolf their way to victory. That was a fun game.
 
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Jonathan Kinney
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I've played this three times now (3, 6 and 7 player). In the three player game I was the infected and had to work like a dog to keep my cover until the end...after which I revealed at the exact point of pushing to a loss. It was an intro game so we weren't really big on the quarantining...certainly not the ideal player count.

With 7 it was fast and furious with players being quarantined left and right and talking themselves out. The uninfected won...but barely.

WIth 6 it was difficult for the infected because it was 4-2 and people were getting their rolls.

I think that an odd number of players is the way to go. It gives the infected a fighting chance. When there is a greater than one player discrepancy between infected and uninfected, I see it being really tough.

This is probably one of the best hidden traitor games I have ever played because even the uninfected can fail (as in a real life situation). But failing in situations like these causes suspicion...which is fantastic.

I have no interest in any other game of it's type. It kills them all. Perfect balance of stress, tasks to complete all in the perfect amount of time.

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Mitch Lavender
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I've only played one time so far, and it was a 7 player game (3 infected\4 uninfected). Infected won, but the Uninfected were working on the last Event when the station was overcome, so it was pretty close. In our game, none of the infected players revealed themselves as infected, however our Commander was infected and played the role quite expertly.

The thing I noted was that even if you knew someone was infected, the most the uninfected player could do was quarantine them, which does limit them somewhat but they can still participate in tasks and votes, and can still issue orders to another player in their turn (a powerful and under-rated action). Quarantine felt weak.

I will add that we did tasks incorrectly and that likely impacted the game, though I'm not sure in which side's favor.

I definitely need to play this a few more times to get it down and see if I like it or not. I also want to play with 5-6 players, which I think might be the game's sweet spot.

 
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Cameron McKenzie
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The big thing with quarantine is that the player doesn't draw tasks.

Supposing the three infected are actively working against you, a round of the game involves facing seven tasks with only 16 dice, 4 actions, and 4 start of turn retrievals, while facing opposing dice from three players. It's frankly going to be too hard to pass all those tasks and still have dice to repair with.

Throw a player in quarantine, and know you are facing one fewer task. As long as that player is infected, you haven't cut into your usable dice pool, and the task you avoid is likely one of the harder ones (since infected would try to choose harder tasks).
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Mitch Lavender
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MasterDinadan wrote:
The big thing with quarantine is that the player doesn't draw tasks.

Supposing the three infected are actively working against you, a round of the game involves facing seven tasks with only 16 dice, 4 actions, and 4 start of turn retrievals, while facing opposing dice from three players. It's frankly going to be too hard to pass all those tasks and still have dice to repair with.

Throw a player in quarantine, and know you are facing one fewer task. As long as that player is infected, you haven't cut into your usable dice pool, and the task you avoid is likely one of the harder ones (since infected would try to choose harder tasks).


Yes, but the quarantined player(s) do still participate on the tasks that do come up from non-quarantined players (albeit, with 2 dice max). They also still get to vote. If infected, they can reveal and have all the infected actions available, and then cannot be voted on or quarantined, so it's a "get of quarantine free" card. Despite the flavor text on page one of the rules which indicate an infected person was killed (I shot him in the head), there is no such option available to player's of the game. Quarantine is the only thing you can do them and it feels marginal, with the game weighted against the non-infected players.

I need to get more plays of Dark Moon in to determine if I like the game or not. I definitely want to try with different player counts.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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An unrevealed infected player who is actively working against the uninfected players is often far more dangerous than one that has formally revealed.
The reason you would quarantine them is to "force" them to reveal which wastes one of their turns and makes them less powerful for the rest of the game.
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Brett Ovcen
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MitchLav wrote:
If infected, they can reveal and have all the infected actions available, and then cannot be voted on or quarantined, so it's a "get of quarantine free" card. Despite the flavor text on page one of the rules which indicate an infected person was killed (I shot him in the head), there is no such option available to player's of the game. Quarantine is the only thing you can do them and it feels marginal, with the game weighted against the non-infected players.


I understood that if an Infected reveals itself while in Quarantine to get out, it does not get the Infection action on the revealed Infected card. So this would limit the amount of damage they could inflict buy revealing themselves as Infected if you've figured out their Infection status and voted to place them in Quarantine. Is this correct?

I just played this last night for the first time. We played it twice. The Infected won the first time but the Uninfected won the second time. It just so happened that the two Infected were sitting side by side so when it came time for them to take their turn, we got slammed by the time both of their turns were completed. Although it was bad, it wasn't enough for the Infected to win again.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Being in quarantine prevents the player from triggering the reveal power on their card when they do reveal. Since every single one of the reveal powers causes a damage, it is well worth it to spend one action to quarantine a known infected even if you expect them to reveal immediately.

If they aren't revealing immediately, then quarantining them does a LOT of good because it stops them from choosing tasks (where they can intentionally pick malfunctions at damaged areas and throwing all their negatives in).

From a gameplay perspective, the fact that you can't completely shut down an infected player is quite important. If you could do that, then infected players would either reveal immediately (to avoid it) or go the entire game playing nice. The game is more interesting with infected players trying to go unrevealed until just the right moment when they can do the most harm.
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Kenny C
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You only need "2 positive results on 3 dice" if you are doing the lone wolf action to place a cube on the event card. You also place a cube on the current event card if you complete a task-- multiple players can contribute to the task card and each player only needs to submit 1 die from the 3 rolled (although they can submit more).

It should be pretty rare that someone is submitting a negative die to a task when three dice are rolled...usually you will get at least 1 positive result (or at least a neutral), it is rare to get all 3 as negatives. If someone is submitting negative dice a lot, then look to quarantine them!

I've always found it too easy for the uninfected team to win, so we made it harder for them with our own little house rule.
 
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