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Subject: Score at tournament scenario set up: 0 points or points "on the board"? rss

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Clyde W
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In the tournament scenario, the rules say the 3 sides all begin with 0 VPs at the start of the scenario, but obviously they start with various clandestine and political markers on the board. So, ...do these markers not count? Do you score their value only at the end of the game?

9.63 wrote:
Victory Points: Each player begins with zero VPs.
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clydeiii wrote:
In the tournament scenario, the rules say the 3 sides all begin with 0 VPs at the start of each of the scenarios, but obviously they start with various clandestine and political markers on the board. So, ...do these markers not count? Do you score their value only at the end of the game?

9.63 wrote:
Victory Points: Each player begins with zero VPs.


Since VPs are only counted at the end of the game (hence starting with any number of points doesn't make any sense), i guess these sentences are leftovers from an earlier version, or they are meant to say that neither Normandy nor Central Italy have been reached yet (which is kind of obvious anyway).

By the way, the sentence is in the Campaign Scenario too (9.63 and 9.73)
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Clyde W
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Sure but in the Campaign, it's true regardless because there's no Pol-Mil markers out on the board yet.
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Clyde W
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As to the "you only score at the end," I don't see this. Which section?

I do see in 10.0 this design note:
Quote:
DESIGN NOTE: I have found gamers of two minds on games with continuous scoring like Churchill. Some folks like know- ing the exact score at all times and manage their decisions based on perfect ‘score’ information, while others like a bit more uncertainty. The core game uses perfect scoring but for those who like to have a bit more bluff in their games I offer the following official variant.
...which suggests there is continuous scoring, ... I think?
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Jason Reid
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I took it to mean that there were no "Conference Won" VP markers awarded prior to the start of the game.

VPs are only tracked in the game as an optional rule. Otherwise they are only counted up at the end.

Section 3.2
Quote:
The Scoring track at the top of the conference display can be
used (optional) to keep a running score of the game.
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Mark Herman
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clydeiii wrote:
In the tournament scenario, the rules say the 3 sides all begin with 0 VPs at the start of each of the scenario, but obviously they start with various clandestine and political markers on the board. So, ...do these markers not count? Do you score their value only at the end of the game?

9.63 wrote:
Victory Points: Each player begins with zero VPs.


As was pointed out, technically you only score points at the end of the game, so the score is always zero until the end. If you want to score at the end of each conference, which I think many people are doing you would have a score after the first conference.

Mark
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Clyde W
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I see. But...well, why not just score for the players acting as if a imaginary 5th conference just ended? I mean, we'll all do that calculation in our heads anyway, right?
 
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Mark Herman
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clydeiii wrote:
I see. But...well, why not just score for the players acting as if a imaginary 5th conference just ended? I mean, we'll all do that calculation in our heads anyway, right?


See it from my perspective. If I gave a score then someone would say, why is there a score if you do not score until the end. Then they would wonder if they were doing it wrong and then I would have to answer their question. There is no win for me in this situation, so I chose to be consistent.

Mark
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MarkHerman wrote:

See it from my perspective. If I gave a score then someone would say, why is there a score if you do not score until the end. Then they would wonder if they were doing it wrong and then I would have to answer their question.


Well, you actually DID give a score, and by giving a score of zero, that's exactly what has happened...

But don't worry, I'm just trying to pass the time until I can finally play the game ftf for the first time this thursday. Just two more days of this... me...
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Clyde W
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MarkHerman wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
I see. But...well, why not just score for the players acting as if a imaginary 5th conference just ended? I mean, we'll all do that calculation in our heads anyway, right?


See it from my perspective. If I gave a score then someone would say, why is there a score if you do not score until the end. Then they would wonder if they were doing it wrong and then I would have to answer their question. There is no win for me in this situation, so I chose to be consistent.

Mark
Ah. Well, I suppose it could've been worded something like, "If Optional Scoring, set the Churchill score to 9, etc."

I'm not meaning to cause conflict here, we were legitimately confused by this section when setting it up on Sunday, wondering if those initial Pol-Mil markers counted towards the score at the end of the game.

Anyway, no worries. We had a blast playing! Such an incredible game.
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clydeiii wrote:
MarkHerman wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
I see. But...well, why not just score for the players acting as if a imaginary 5th conference just ended? I mean, we'll all do that calculation in our heads anyway, right?


See it from my perspective. If I gave a score then someone would say, why is there a score if you do not score until the end. Then they would wonder if they were doing it wrong and then I would have to answer their question. There is no win for me in this situation, so I chose to be consistent.

Mark
Ah. Well, I suppose it could've been worded something like, "If Optional Scoring, set the Churchill score to 9, etc."

I'm not meaning to cause conflict here, we were legitimately confused by this section when setting it up on Sunday, wondering if those initial Pol-Mil markers counted towards the score at the end of the game.

Anyway, no worries. We had a blast playing! Such an incredible game.


No problem, as I learned long ago, no matter how I word it I lose someone in the translation, but with these forums I have the ability to sort these things out. I will try and add a sentence down the road to make it clearer.
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