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Subject: Scoring question rss

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Chris District
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Played this last night. We had this question come up, and we weren't clear on how to score it:

Both US and UK broke through into Germany in the same round, meaning that both fronts were in Germany for scoring purposes.

Referring to the rules:

Quote:

9.4 Victory Point Schedule
G. 8 VP per Axis country where they have a Front (all US and UK Fronts give 8 points to both the US and the UK)


Our strict reading of this meant that, in our situation, both the US and the UK would score 16 points each! If all Fronts in the surrendered axis country give 8 points to both players, then both fronts would give 8 points to both players, meaning 8x2, each .

Can that be right? That seems like a HUGE, and maybe unintended, point swing.

 
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Mark Herman
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District wrote:
Played this last night. We had this question come up, and we weren't clear on how to score it:

Both US and UK broke through into Germany in the same round, meaning that both fronts were in Germany for scoring purposes.

Referring to the rules:

Quote:

9.4 Victory Point Schedule
G. 8 VP per Axis country where they have a Front (all US and UK Fronts give 8 points to both the US and the UK)


Our strict reading of this meant that, in our situation, both the US and the UK would score 16 points each! If all Fronts in the surrendered axis country give 8 points to both players, then both fronts would give 8 points to both players, meaning 8x2, each .

Can that be right? That seems like a HUGE, and maybe unintended, point swing.



First off this is impossible, the Med front does not connect to Germany. But it can happen in the Pacific. If you read it literally you can never get more than 8 points total.
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Rick Thompson
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District wrote:

Both US and UK broke through into Germany in the same round, meaning that both fronts were in Germany for scoring purposes.


Just to be clear, it seems that both the Western Front and the Med broke thru to Germany. Per 3.22, "The final space on each track (except the Mediterranean Front) is one of the Axis powers."
That front can never enter Germany.

District wrote:

Referring to the rules:

Quote:

9.4 Victory Point Schedule
G. 8 VP per Axis country where they have a Front (all US and UK Fronts give 8 points to both the US and the UK)


Our strict reading of this meant that, in our situation, both the US and the UK would score 16 points each! If all Fronts in the surrendered axis country give 8 points to both players, then both fronts would give 8 points to both players, meaning 8x2, each .

Can that be right? That seems like a HUGE, and maybe unintended, point swing.



It's not. It's 8 points per Axis Country (emphasis mine). Even if the Med front could get there, it would still only get 8 points.

edit: Mark beat me to it!
 
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Chris District
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MarkHerman wrote:
First off this is impossible, the Med front does not connect to Germany.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Ok. Give us a first timers' pass on that one.
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Mark Herman
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District wrote:
MarkHerman wrote:
First off this is impossible, the Med front does not connect to Germany.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Ok. Give us a first timers' pass on that one.


happy to assist. i hope you had fun.
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Charles CORDIER
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Rule is clear on this point but map wording can be misleading as it says "8 VP for each Front". In germany it is pretty clear it's 8 for US/UK and 8 for USSR, but in Japan you could imagine it's 8 for each US/UK Front for a total of 24, which is wrong.
"for each Front" means "for each kind of Front" here.
 
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Tod Andrew
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Hi

Just to clarify, is there a difference in the way Europe and Pacific fronts are scored?

-Europe (Germany) - UK, USA and USSR score only one number of points each according to how far their front progressed? So the maximum is 8 points each?

-Pacific (Japan) - each country could score more than one type of points? For example, if UK invaded Japan and USA was in Okinawa, then UK would get 8 points BUT the USA would get 13 points (the 8 for the UK invasion plus 5 for reaching Okinawa)?
If so, then it sort of differs from p18 notice under "Important!" which suggests that a player score points for "... just the last space it advanved into, to include an Axis country".

Thanks.
 
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Clyde W
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If Germany falls to, say, USSR in, say, Conf9, can US/UK come in during Conf10 and earn the VP too?
 
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Steve Carey
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clydeiii wrote:
If Germany falls to, say, USSR in, say, Conf9, can US/UK come in during Conf10 and earn the VP too?


No - the rules specify that connected army tracks are done when an Axis power surrenders (however Clandestine Networks and Political Alignment markers could still potentially be placed).
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tod_13 wrote:
Just to clarify, is there a difference in the way Europe and Pacific fronts are scored?


No. It's just that one situation can not happen in Europe (due to the map), but the rules are the same.

tod_13 wrote:

-Europe (Germany) - UK, USA and USSR score only one number of points each according to how far their front progressed? So the maximum is 8 points each?


No. Each track always scores for the last space that was reached. The only exception is where the tracks converge: in this case Germany. Since the mediterranean track can't reach Germany, this is not an issue here, as only the US and the USSR front can enter the country (and get 8 Points for USSR and/or UK/US). US and UK still score for achievements on the "italy" track as normal.

tod_13 wrote:

-Pacific (Japan) - each country could score more than one type of points? For example, if UK invaded Japan and USA was in Okinawa, then UK would get 8 points BUT the USA would get 13 points (the 8 for the UK invasion plus 5 for reaching Okinawa)?

It is exactly the same as above, but here, more than one front for the US/UK could invade Japan. Since Japan is the converging point and the converging point scores only once per country (see "Europe), they can get at most 8 VPs from US and/or UK invading Japan.

Thematically, it's not always a good idea to invade Japan. If you need points, let the other guy (not Joe) do the work for you. If you are too far ahead and need to increase the score of your ally, you might consider invading (just as an example. There is more to it of course).
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Steven Mitchell
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Steve and Benji are both correct.
 
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Tod Andrew
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Thanks for the quick reply.

So, my example of points in the Pacific is correct, but for a different reason; that is, more fronts?
 
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Benji
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Your example is correct. And if the SW front is in Kyushu, the US gets another 5 VPs, and inter-service Rivalry is not an issue.
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Tod Andrew
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Benji68 wrote:
Your example is correct. And if the SW front is in Kyushu, the US gets another 5 VPs, and inter-service Rivalry is not an issue.


Thanks again. Just one more; it is 8 points for USSR reaching Korea, and is it still 8 points if they progress to Japan? Without any extra points, would USSR go on to Japan only to prevent others getting there first?

 
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Benji
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yes. Or to get Japan to surrender (if the others don't want it to ).
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Charles CORDIER
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Anyway, if USSR Front is in Korea, assault on Japan is mandatory. If support is present (other players action or card attribute) and dice roll low enough, there is nothing the soviet player can do to avoid invasion.
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denis sauzedde
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noelberrier wrote:
Anyway, if USSR Front is in Korea, assault on Japan is mandatory.

Sorry, but this is not true, because Japan is an amphibious space, so USSR must have 3 naval in the Far East Theater box.
 
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Charles CORDIER
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noelberrier wrote:
Anyway, if USSR Front is in Korea, assault on Japan is mandatory. If support is present (other players action or card attribute) and dice roll low enough, there is nothing the soviet player can do to avoid invasion.


The point is USSR player cannot avoid to invade if others want him to.
 
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true
 
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Clyde W
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Steve Carey wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
If Germany falls to, say, USSR in, say, Conf9, can US/UK come in during Conf10 and earn the VP too?


No - the rules specify that connected army tracks are done when an Axis power surrenders (however Clandestine Networks and Political Alignment markers could still potentially be placed).
Are done...but can players still dump armies into those fronts?
 
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Mark Herman
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Gunderian007 wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Steve Carey wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
If Germany falls to, say, USSR in, say, Conf9, can US/UK come in during Conf10 and earn the VP too?


No - the rules specify that connected army tracks are done when an Axis power surrenders (however Clandestine Networks and Political Alignment markers could still potentially be placed).
Are done...but can players still dump armies into those fronts?


Yes and navies


Once an Axis country surrenders the ONLY thing you can place in that theater is clandestine networks and political alignment markers. All else is no.
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Dan Huffman
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One last variation on this question....In the unlikely event that there are 12 fleets in the appropriate spaces and US invades Japan from the South and East, UK and USSR also invade.......The VPs would be USSR: 8, UK: 8, USA: 16.

Is that correct? The USA would get credit for advancing from both fronts.....if not, it would behoove them to wait a turn in the Philippines and Invade the 2nd to last spot as the Central Pacific takes the Main Island....Am I missing something?
 
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Mark Herman
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huffman123 wrote:
One last variation on this question....In the unlikely event that there are 12 fleets in the appropriate spaces and US invades Japan from the South and East, UK and USSR also invade.......The VPs would be USSR: 8, UK: 8, USA: 16.

Is that correct? The USA would get credit for advancing from both fronts.....if not, it would behoove them to wait a turn in the Philippines and Invade the 2nd to last spot as the Central Pacific takes the Main Island....Am I missing something?


This is incorrect. The VPs are 8 VP each.

Per the rules you get 8 VP if you have a front, or two or three.

I am unclear on what spaces you are exactly referring to, but why it may happen speaks from the consistent view that the most points is best. This is rarely true in Churchill.

There are various narratives that I can construct, but be clear the most you can get for getting any number of fronts in an Axis country is 8.
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Dan Huffman
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MarkHerman wrote:
huffman123 wrote:
One last variation on this question....In the unlikely event that there are 12 fleets in the appropriate spaces and US invades Japan from the South and East, UK and USSR also invade.......The VPs would be USSR: 8, UK: 8, USA: 16.

Is that correct? The USA would get credit for advancing from both fronts.....if not, it would behoove them to wait a turn in the Philippines and Invade the 2nd to last spot as the Central Pacific takes the Main Island....Am I missing something?


This is incorrect. The VPs are 8 VP each.

Per the rules you get 8 VP if you have a front, or two or three.

I am unclear on what spaces you are exactly referring to, but why it may happen speaks from the consistent view that the most points is best. This is rarely true in Churchill.

There are various narratives that I can construct, but be clear the most you can get for getting any number of fronts in an Axis country is 8.


It was Soren's game, so I'm just doing it from memory...but I went to the pictures posted here in BGG to get this correct.

OK, So if USA makes it to Kyushu it gets 5 VPs and if the USA then advances into Japan, it gets a TOTAL of 13 VPs? (8 for Japan proper, and 5 for Kyushu)?

If the answer is 13 VPs, then I'm cool.

If the answer is only 8 VPs, then I could envision a time when It makes sense for the USA to arrange to take Okinawa and Kyushu the same turn that Japan falls...Thus getting 10 VPs instead of 8. Not saying that is likely or easy to pull off.....but maybe it could happen? Note that if the answer before was 13 VPs, this would not a valid option.
 
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Mark Herman
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Please go to this link as I cannot make out the details from your wording.

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20156916#20156916
 
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