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Subject: Martin Wallace & Treefrog Games update rss

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Cory & Crissy Cook
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For those who are interested...Martin Wallace announced that Treefrog Games will no longer be producing their own titles. The full announcement is on the Treefrog Games website:

http://www.treefroggames.com/
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Cory & Crissy Cook
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I'm hoping that Ships with still ship (no pun intended) as well as the new version of A Study in Emerald.
 
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Charles Boyung
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Maybe his games will approach a reasonable publication timeline in the future.
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Quintious .
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It was the only possible outcome. That man is arguably the worst businessperson I've ever seen in this industry - and that's saying something. He needs a guiding hand to protect him from his own ineptness.
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Dennis Ku
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Man, what a sad decline. I felt like he was the top designer about 5 or 6 years ago, but his recent record has been uneven. Saddens me.
 
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Charles Boyung
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colmmccarthy wrote:
futhee wrote:
Man, what a sad decline. I felt like he was the top designer about 5 or 6 years ago, but his recent record has been uneven. Saddens me.


What decline? His designs are still top notch.


Yeah, this has absolutely nothing to do with his game designs - it has everything to do with the fact that he has no idea how to run a business.
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Ole Richard Tuft
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Wow, I had no idea there was so much controversy surrounding Age of Steam & Brass. Almost makes me feel bad for buying an Eagle-published version of Brass. But, what do I know... Best of luck to a brilliant designer.
 
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Dennis Ku
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colmmccarthy wrote:
futhee wrote:
Man, what a sad decline. I felt like he was the top designer about 5 or 6 years ago, but his recent record has been uneven. Saddens me.


What decline? His designs are still top notch.


Top notch? I guess some still think so. Personally, I think he hasn't released a "top notch" game since London, and that's what, 4 or 5 years ago?
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CHAPEL
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futhee wrote:


Top notch? I guess some still think so. Personally, I think he hasn't released a "top notch" game since London, and that's what, 4 or 5 years ago?


Nah, he's had as many good titles in the last few years as he's ever had. That can't all be brass and Age of Steam. I think he is going a lot stronger recently than designers like Knizia and Moon has.

I think what hurt him more than anything was lack of larger print runs, but his designs have been top notch.
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Quintious .
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MWChapel wrote:
futhee wrote:


Top notch? I guess some still think so. Personally, I think he hasn't released a "top notch" game since London, and that's what, 4 or 5 years ago?


Nah, he's had as many good titles in the last few years as he's ever had. That can't all be brass and Age of Steam. I think he is going a lot stronger recently than designers like Knizia and Moon has.

I think what hurt him more than anything was lack of larger print runs, but his designs have been top notch.


I'd side w/ Dennis here. ASiE was a chaotic mess, and he himself admitted it had serious balance issues. Onward to Venus was garbage, Mythotopia wasn't exactly highly received, Ships doesn't look like it'll ever ship, The Witches was a disaster, AFAoS was completely broken, Discworld was mediocre. Unless Field of Glory was fantastic (I haven't played it), that means he hasn't made a decent game since 2010.
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Garry Rice
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CCQCook wrote:
I'm hoping that Ships with still ship (no pun intended) as well as the new version of A Study in Emerald.


Ships is finished and being shipped...I believe they're in a container ship somewhere

A Study in Emerald I have no idea...
 
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It's okay, I'm
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futhee wrote:
colmmccarthy wrote:
futhee wrote:
Man, what a sad decline. I felt like he was the top designer about 5 or 6 years ago, but his recent record has been uneven. Saddens me.


What decline? His designs are still top notch.


Top notch? I guess some still think so. Personally, I think he hasn't released a "top notch" game since London, and that's what, 4 or 5 years ago?

Study in Emerald?
 
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Quintious wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
futhee wrote:


Top notch? I guess some still think so. Personally, I think he hasn't released a "top notch" game since London, and that's what, 4 or 5 years ago?


Nah, he's had as many good titles in the last few years as he's ever had. That can't all be brass and Age of Steam. I think he is going a lot stronger recently than designers like Knizia and Moon has.

I think what hurt him more than anything was lack of larger print runs, but his designs have been top notch.


I'd side w/ Dennis here. ASiE was a chaotic mess, and he himself admitted it had serious balance issues.


You're taking what he said out of very important context. He, very candidly, in the end of the rulebook leaves some design notes about how the game has so much going on that it may not be perfectly balanced. The important part is that he says (basically), "I don't know which side it favors."

The point is, if you've played ASiE a few times, you see that it's very much a game of subtlety. Some moves, once they've been made, have essentially finished the game. I could go on and support his idea with anecdotes, but those don't matter in the long run. My main point is, you're writing it like he acknowledged, tail between his legs, that he thinks it has "serious balance issues." That's disingenuous at best, taking an obviously half-joking statement out of context.

Also, ASiE is genius. I'll take its chaotic nature over the same dry Euro mechanics that get touted out in every release by Feld any day.

Any Mythotopia is actually pretty good. (7.16 average rating) Martin's mediocre designs are better than most designer's bests.
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Dennis Ku
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reddish22 wrote:
Martin's mediocre designs are better than most designer's bests.


This is certainly true!
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not a real person wrote:
futhee wrote:
colmmccarthy wrote:
futhee wrote:
Man, what a sad decline. I felt like he was the top designer about 5 or 6 years ago, but his recent record has been uneven. Saddens me.


What decline? His designs are still top notch.


Top notch? I guess some still think so. Personally, I think he hasn't released a "top notch" game since London, and that's what, 4 or 5 years ago?

Study in Emerald?


Not really top notch.

Thankfully lovecraft games don't have to be to make people love them
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Brian Current
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Actual announcement from Wallace (sorry to interrupt the 'that game sucks' 'no it doesn't' thread):

Treefrog’s New Direction
Julia and I have decided that it is time for Treefrog to make a change in direction. We will cease to produce our own titles and focus instead on designing games for other companies. There are numerous reasons behind this decision, but the main factor has been the increased costs of running the company from New Zealand. This does not mean the end of ‘Treefrog’ style games, it just means they will appear with another companies logo on.

The last game off the slipway will be A Handful of Stars, which hopefully will be available in the first half of 2016. This will be a limited production of 2500 units, so we will be taking pre orders close to the point where the game will be ready for shipping.

To clarify the situation with Brass, Treefrog will not be producing the new Kickstarter edition. We are presently negotiating with another company, we hope to have positive news soon.


My hope is that he finds "other companies" that work well with him. There seems to have been more than one soured working relationships in the past.
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Clay Blankenship
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I hope this means his games will become a little more affordable.
 
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Quintious .
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snoweel wrote:
I hope this means his games will become a little more affordable.


I've never found his games overly expensive. I've found them chronically late in periods that span YEARS of delay. Hopefully this fixes that problem of his.
 
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Jason Reid
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snoweel wrote:
I hope this means his games will become a little more affordable.


You mean once they go out of print? While they're in print, pretty much all of his games consistently go for around $40.
 
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Jeremy Hope
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futhee wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Martin's mediocre designs are better than most designer's bests.


This is certainly true!


I don't understand the cult following to be honest. I think reddish22 statement is absurd. A crappy game is a crappy game!
 
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Kolby Reddish
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Taegukki wrote:
futhee wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Martin's mediocre designs are better than most designer's bests.


This is certainly true!


I don't understand the cult following to be honest. I think reddish22 statement is absurd. A crappy game is a crappy game!


I'm saying Martins middle of the road designs are better than most designers best designs. Not sure how to explain it any clearer than that.
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john f stup
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reddish22 wrote:
Taegukki wrote:
futhee wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Martin's mediocre designs are better than most designer's bests.


This is certainly true!


I don't understand the cult following to be honest. I think reddish22 statement is absurd. A crappy game is a crappy game!


I'm saying Martins middle of the road designs are better than most designers best designs. Not sure how to explain it any clearer than that.

i thought his Gettysburg game was great but that Clash of Wills was a miss.
 
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Quintious wrote:
snoweel wrote:
I hope this means his games will become a little more affordable.


I've never found his games overly expensive. I've found them chronically late in periods that span YEARS of delay. Hopefully this fixes that problem of his.


Haha! This is so true! Hopefully working with other companies that know how the business works will address this.
 
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jasonwocky wrote:
snoweel wrote:
I hope this means his games will become a little more affordable.


You mean once they go out of print? While they're in print, pretty much all of his games consistently go for around $40.


OK, I must admit I haven't bought any of his in the last few years. I remember about the time of 2008-2010 I avoided buying several of his designs that were in the $50 (discounted) range, when I was routinely picking up games with similar components for around $30 from other publishers. I realize that is partly an economic reality of small print runs, but I find it a lot easier to drop $30 on a game I've never played than $50 or more. Maybe that trend hasn't continued.
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