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Less: Like Chess but Less!» Forums » General

Subject: Guess Where This Game Came from rss

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ARTHUR REILLY
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Remember the recent game called: Mine Shift that came in a tin. Well except for the ability to just over walls, this is the same game but the components don't looks as nice.



Pick what you think works best.

Arthur Reilly
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chicagopsych

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Interesting. I wonder if its a coincidence. I think the components in Less look more like an abstract strategy and less like a toy.
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ARTHUR REILLY
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chicagopsych wrote:
Interesting. I wonder if its a coincidence. I think the components in Less look more like an abstract strategy and less like a toy.


Given the squares used in the game with different paths on them and the same goal, would make "Less" seem more like a rip off. Plus "Less" comes with cheap looking cards, where as Mine Shift comes with nice and sturdy thick tiles.

Arthur Reilly
 
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Yes, I do now see that the playing pieces are only thin cards.

Edit looking at the pictures up close they do appear to be cardboard after all. A shame though if the designer ripped off the idea.
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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chicagopsych wrote:
Yes, I do now see that the playing pieces are only thin cards.

Edit looking at the pictures up close they do appear to be cardboard after all. A shame though if the designer ripped off the idea.


Something else just occurred to me. In Mine Shift you can rotate the tiles and change the maze as you play. In "Less" what's the point of having a maze when you can just jump over walls. Now that I just read that, this game not only looks cheap and is a rip off, but is also down right stupid. Why have a maze if you don't need to follow it.

Anyone who buys this instead of Mine Shift, deserves all the disappointment that will come with their purchase.

Arthur Reilly
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Caleb
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
chicagopsych wrote:
Yes, I do now see that the playing pieces are only thin cards.

Edit looking at the pictures up close they do appear to be cardboard after all. A shame though if the designer ripped off the idea.


Something else just occurred to me. In Mine Shift you can rotate the tiles and change the maze as you play. In "Less" what's the point of having a maze when you can just jump over walls. Now that I just read that, this game not only looks cheap and is a rip off, but is also down right stupid. Why have a maze if you don't need to follow it.

Anyone who buys this instead of Mine Shift, deserves all the disappointment that will come with their purchase.

Arthur Reilly


I don't know anything about Mine Shift, but in this game, you have to pay more action points to go over the walls than to make a normal move.
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Calvin Daniels
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I have the impression the cards are plastic, at least they appeared to be splashed with water in video.
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ARTHUR REILLY
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Talisinbear wrote:
I have the impression the cards are plastic, at least they appeared to be splashed with water in video.


Plastic or not, I still prefer the sturdy and thick tiles from Mine Shift, to play with. Lastly I wouldn't want to invest in a game that's a ripoff of someone else's work.

Arthur Reilly
 
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Perry Fergin
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To me, "Less" seems an awful lot like Chinese Checkers.
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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perrygf wrote:
To me, "Less" seems an awful lot like Chinese Checkers.


Well Chinese Checkers has many more pieces that can move. Plus the board always remains the same. In Mine Shift as well as in the copy "Less" the maze changes every game. If you look at the rules and the components for Mine Shift on here, you'll say, "Oh God, they did rip this game off". But what's worse than that, is they did change the one rule that use to make the game actually be fun. With Mine Shift your trying to get through a slowly changing maze. In Less, what's the point of having a maze if you don't have to follow it, but just jump over walls. Even forgetting they stole this idea, the components and the new rule stinks.

Arthur Reilly
 
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Christopher Walker
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And yet, these slight changes are what make the game so fun AND, IMHO, make the game different enough from Mine Shift; the locked board state and the ability to jump over walls, but at a cost.

I have made my own quick DIY version (incredibly easy) and I have really, really enjoyed it. What I actually really enjoy is that, even as simple as this game is, it still inspired post-game analysis: "I was planning on moving my piece here, but you did that and blocked me!" I love post-game analysis, so I was really pleasantly surprised that this simple game spurs that. Disclosure: I have kickstarted this.

I don't think we can really prove, with the information we have, that the game was ripped off; we can only point out the similarities. I would suspect, however, that if Less really was designed with Mine Shift in mind, it would try and retain the in-game board-changing aspect, as that seems to be a main feature of Mine Shift. Because Less does not have this aspect, I think it was not designed with Mine Shift as the inspiration. It's not, after all, that creative or original of an idea to use cards and pieces to create an abstract game. Remember, several identical ideas have been designed/discovered independently at the same time in history!
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chicagopsych

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harmonicaman79 wrote:

I don't think we can really prove, with the information we have, that the game was ripped off; we can only point out the similarities. I would suspect, however, that if Less really was designed with Mine Shift in mind, it would try and retain the in-game board-changing aspect, as that seems to be a main feature of Mine Shift. Because Less does not have this aspect, I think it was not designed with Mine Shift as the inspiration. It's not, after all, that creative or original of an idea to use cards and pieces to create an abstract game. Remember, several identical ideas have been designed/discovered independently at the same time in history!


This is what I initially thought about, as well. Hex was "invented" by two different people and I know some of Nestor Games' product have been similar to other abstracts and I believe him, when he says he was not influenced by the other. You never know.

So what type of harmonica do you play? Diatonic?
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ARTHUR REILLY
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chicagopsych wrote:
harmonicaman79 wrote:

I don't think we can really prove, with the information we have, that the game was ripped off; we can only point out the similarities. I would suspect, however, that if Less really was designed with Mine Shift in mind, it would try and retain the in-game board-changing aspect, as that seems to be a main feature of Mine Shift. Because Less does not have this aspect, I think it was not designed with Mine Shift as the inspiration. It's not, after all, that creative or original of an idea to use cards and pieces to create an abstract game. Remember, several identical ideas have been designed/discovered independently at the same time in history!


This is what I initially thought about, as well. Hex was "invented" by two different people and I know some of Nestor Games' product have been similar to other abstracts and I believe him, when he says he was not influenced by the other. You never know.

So what type of harmonica do you play? Diatonic?


I no longer have an interest in talking about "less", which is actually what it is. People seem to forget that you don't find just similarities here but the exact same game with one stupid rule change change, and cheaper looking components. If people want to waste their money on an inferior game, knock yourselves out. I hope you enjoy yourselves.

Enough said.

Arthur Reilly
 
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Dave Dyer
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I think it's unfair to characterize "less" as a ripoff of Mine Shift, or any other game. It's a basic race game. There are probably hundreds of games in the database that involve racing pawns on a modular board. There are bound to be similarities.
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ARTHUR REILLY
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ddyer wrote:
I think it's unfair to characterize "less" as a ripoff of Mine Shift, or any other game. It's a basic race game. There are probably hundreds of games in the database that involve racing pawns on a modular board. There are bound to be similarities.


If you think this game is so original, go back the kickstarter campaign.

What is everyone missing here???

1. The game uses the same maze tiles
2. The game uses the same number of pieces for each side.
3. The board layout of tiles is the same.
4. The starting pieces start out in the same position
5. The game also allows jumping
6. The goal of the game is the same

Oh, but they did change one rule, unfortunately a rule that use to make the game fun. The ability to rotate a tile, changing the maze slightly.

The new rule allows you to jump over walls. I ask you, what's the point of having a maze that you don't ever have to follow, because you can just jump over walls.

I won't be commenting on the game any more, as it's not worth my time or interest. Just trying to let people know about Mine Shift, which is a better game, not only as far as the components go, but actually having to use the maze that the whole game is based on.

If you can't see the nose in front of your face and can't see what's clearly obvious here, then go buy "Less", because that's exactly what you'll get.

Have fun,

Arthur Reilly
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Caleb
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
.

I won't be commenting on the game any more,



Wanna bet?
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Dave Dyer
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You clearly haven't looked at the actual rules of Mine Shift.
It uses a different layout of 10 tiles, which move and rotate. Less
uses a 3x3 grid which do not move.

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Robert (Bob) Miller Sr
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So, if you have Mine Shift don't you have Less also? Just use the Less rules for the Mine Shift tiles and pieces. Am I right?
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Dave Dyer
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Hohenstadt wrote:
So, if you have Mine Shift don't you have Less also? Just use the Less rules for the Mine Shift tiles and pieces. Am I right?


Modulo the exact set of tiles you're right. Mine shift comes with a bunch of extra tiles, but neither game makes a big deal about the set of barrier lines that are available.
 
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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I backed Less on Kickstarter without ever having heard of Mine Shift before. I backed it because I am a media designer and liked the clean layout of Less. It comes with 12 tiles, whereof only 3x3 are needed to play the game with 2 players. 2 games can be combined for a 4 player game which plays 2-vs-2. The tiles are thick and sturdy cardboard, 2 or 2.5mm I guess and laminated. To me it felt more like Halma than Chinese checkers, even though both are pretty similar.

Did I feel like buying a rip-off or a product of low quality? Not at all. The component quality with the sturdy tiles and the wooden pawns is outstanding. So I at this only because I backed it? No, I wouldn't hesitate to say if it was a bad buy. Just look at the reviews, KS comments of other backers, etc. Everyone is pretty confident with what they got.
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Scott Petrovits
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I just received Less, and I am happy with the quality of the components. The tiles are thick cardboard with sharp graphics. The pieces are nice varnished wood. As to its similarities to Mine Shift, so what? The board layout is different, it doesn't change, and the rules for movement are entirely different. Less is about action points. You need to spend more to jump over walls. I understand that, for some reason, you object to having a board that looks a bit like a maze, and not treating it like a maze. That's your problem, not the game designer's. Oh, both games have 4 pieces per player. Yep, total ripoff. Duh.

Have you actually played Less? Nope. That's all that needs to be said about the validity of any of your arguments. You should also know that it's very unlikely I will ever play Mine Shift, just because your posts ruined it for me.
 
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