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Subject: Bob's Building Team and Technology rss

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Alex Singh
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I have a question about how Bob's Building Team works when combined with basic technology from the Atlanteans expansion.

Here is the text from the card:

Quote:
Feature: At the beginning of the Lookout phase draw 2 FACTION carads instead of 1. Keep one of your choice and reshuffle the back in to its deck.


My question is how does this card work when upgraded with basic technology. If you are unaware, here is the description from the rule book of what basic technology does when used on a feature building:

Quote:
Placed on a Feature Location doubles its effect


So how do you double the effect of Bob's Building Team? Would you end up keeping 2 faction cards? That seemed a little too powerful so I ended up just drawing 3 cards and keeping one. What are your thoughts?
 
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Winston Spencer
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It's the same problem that you have with productions locations and basic technology tokens, the solution is the same, you trigger the feature twice. There is no reason to they use a different method to features and production locations.

The rule book could be more clear about that.

EDIT: typo. Tablet 2 x 0 I.
 
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Bruce
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Aztarun wrote:
It's the same problem that you have with productions locations and basic technology tokens, the solution is the same, you trigger the feature twice. There is no reason to they use a different method to features and production locations.

The rule book could be more clear about that.

EDIT: typo. Tablet 2 x 0 I.

"trigger the feature twice" doesn't resolve this problem, as the trigger is a specific part of the lookout phase.

So do you either:

1: Draw two cards, shuffle one back in (second trigger has same effect, so no change)
2: Draw two cards, shuffle one back in, then Draw two cards, shuffle one back in (repeated trigger also repeats the lookout draw)
3: Draw three cards, shuffle one back in (repeat an extra draw)
4: Draw three cards, shuffle two back in (repeat extra draw and extra shuffle)
5: Draw four cards, shuffle one back in (repeat draw)
6: Draw four cards, shuffle two back in (repeat draw and shuffle)
6: Draw four cards, shuffle three back in (repeat draw and maintain keep number)
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Alex Singh
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BruceLGL wrote:
Aztarun wrote:
It's the same problem that you have with productions locations and basic technology tokens, the solution is the same, you trigger the feature twice. There is no reason to they use a different method to features and production locations.

The rule book could be more clear about that.

EDIT: typo. Tablet 2 x 0 I.

"trigger the feature twice" doesn't resolve this problem, as the trigger is a specific part of the lookout phase.

So do you either:

1: Draw two cards, shuffle one back in (second trigger has same effect, so no change)
2: Draw two cards, shuffle one back in, then Draw two cards, shuffle one back in (repeated trigger also repeats the lookout draw)
3: Draw three cards, shuffle one back in (repeat an extra draw)
4: Draw three cards, shuffle two back in (repeat extra draw and extra shuffle)
5: Draw four cards, shuffle one back in (repeat draw)
6: Draw four cards, shuffle two back in (repeat draw and shuffle)
6: Draw four cards, shuffle three back in (repeat draw and maintain keep number)


Exactly. I understand that the Feature is triggered twice, but this specific card refers to a very specific timing within the game: the drawing of Faction Cards during the lookout phase. Technology, as it is written, only affects the location it is applied to, no mention of it doubling or affecting game phases.

I did get an answer directly from Portal games. They said that in this particular case you would draw 2 cards and keep 1 then shuffle. Then you would draw 2 more and keep 1 and shuffle. You would, in effect, gain 2 faction cards per lookout phase with this combo.

Here's the link to verify:

As for my question regarding basic technology and production cards, there is most assuredly room for interpretation with the rules as they are currently worded.
 
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Winston Spencer
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singhalex wrote:
As for my question regarding basic technology and production cards, there is most assuredly room for interpretation with the rules as they are currently worded.


I agree with you that if the rules was worded in a different way it would be really more clear.
 
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Michal Starek
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Speaking of which, Scoring AND Basic Technology on a Production / Feature card, I assume, gives 2 VP each time the card is triggered, because the effect is kinda not just doubled, but triggered twice?
 
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Alex Singh
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myyysha wrote:
Speaking of which, Scoring AND Basic Technology on a Production / Feature card, I assume, gives 2 VP each time the card is triggered, because the effect is kinda not just doubled, but triggered twice?


Yes, that's correct. The rule book says that production is doubled, but it actually produces twice. I verified this with Portal Games.
 
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Winston Spencer
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singhalex wrote:
myyysha wrote:
Speaking of which, Scoring AND Basic Technology on a Production / Feature card, I assume, gives 2 VP each time the card is triggered, because the effect is kinda not just doubled, but triggered twice?


Yes, that's correct. The rule book says that production is doubled, but it actually produces twice. I verified this with Portal Games.


Here is the link to the Alex post with the confirmation on Twitter: link


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Michael Johnson
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singhalex wrote:
BruceLGL wrote:
Aztarun wrote:
It's the same problem that you have with productions locations and basic technology tokens, the solution is the same, you trigger the feature twice. There is no reason to they use a different method to features and production locations.

The rule book could be more clear about that.

EDIT: typo. Tablet 2 x 0 I.

"trigger the feature twice" doesn't resolve this problem, as the trigger is a specific part of the lookout phase.

So do you either:

1: Draw two cards, shuffle one back in (second trigger has same effect, so no change)
2: Draw two cards, shuffle one back in, then Draw two cards, shuffle one back in (repeated trigger also repeats the lookout draw)
3: Draw three cards, shuffle one back in (repeat an extra draw)
4: Draw three cards, shuffle two back in (repeat extra draw and extra shuffle)
5: Draw four cards, shuffle one back in (repeat draw)
6: Draw four cards, shuffle two back in (repeat draw and shuffle)
6: Draw four cards, shuffle three back in (repeat draw and maintain keep number)


Exactly. I understand that the Feature is triggered twice, but this specific card refers to a very specific timing within the game: the drawing of Faction Cards during the lookout phase. Technology, as it is written, only affects the location it is applied to, no mention of it doubling or affecting game phases.

I did get an answer directly from Portal games. They said that in this particular case you would draw 2 cards and keep 1 then shuffle. Then you would draw 2 more and keep 1 and shuffle. You would, in effect, gain 2 faction cards per lookout phase with this combo.

Here's the link to verify:

As for my question regarding basic technology and production cards, there is most assuredly room for interpretation with the rules as they are currently worded.


I'd argue that whether you should 'double' the effect, or do/'activate' it twice is not the issue in and of itself. It becomes an issue though when dealing with Advanced Scoring Tech tokens. I'll need to play the game in multiplayer form a few times to make a more informed decision, but I do think it is a MAJOR change in the game depending on how you play it for gaining VP in those situations for Production and Feature Locations.
 
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