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Bushido: Der Weg des Kriegers» Forums » Rules

Subject: Sequence of battle effects resolution and Ronin revolt? rss

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Tony Bellringer
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Burgess Hill
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What is the sequence of events (particularly as regards Honour changes deriving from the honour value of the contested province) where after a battle Daimyo or Bushi troops remain in the province, but are now equal to - or outnumbered by - Ronin?

I'm assuming you resolve the battle outcomes before doing the auto-revolt check, in which case I think it would go:
- If the Samurai has successfully taken the province for the Daimyo, Samurai gets Samurai honour (including some equal to the province honour) and Daimyo gets the province and its resources (including Daimyo honour equal to the province honour). If the Bushi has instead held the province, Bushi gets Samurai honour equal to the province value for the successful defence
- Then the Ronin revolt and the province holder loses the province and Daimyo honour equal to the province's honour value.

If instead the Ronin auto-revolt can literally interrupt between determining the battle victor and implementing the results, I think it would then go:
- Samurai wins battle and kills all Bushi troops, gaining Samurai honour for kills, tiles played, and possibly Bonus Honour put in by Daimyo. However, Samurai gets no honour from the province itself, as Ronin immediately revolt and kill all Daimyo's remaining troops: province is never taken, thus Daimyo gets no benefit at all (comparable to when Samurai wins, but has to retreat as has not eliminated all Bushi troops), The main difference here with version 1 above would be that the Samurai would receive no honour from the province as they did not fully secure it for the Daimyo; or
- Bushi troops survive the battle against Samurai, but province then instantly revolts and goes neutral: Bushi gets Samurai honour for kills against Samurai, but even if he won that battle against the Samurai, Bushi gets no province Samurai honour, as he failed to 'successfully hold' the province. The question is particularly relevant here, as in version 1 above, a Bushi who wins the main battle does actually get province Samurai honour for successfully defending and holding the province against Samurai, before losing Daimyo honour when the province is then lost to Ronin revolt.

I guess the core question is whether you consider the acquiring of honour from province possession following a battle as completely separate from honour gained from the battle itself, or consider it all part and parcel of the Samurai/Bushi battle, and the Ronin revolt is therefore a separate event? As written, the English rules have the battle and all that flows from it (including potential Ronin revolt) happening in the same phase, so it's not really clear.

I'm inclined to favour the full resolution of battle consequences (including province honour distribution) before doing the Ronin revolt check: one gets the full honour from battle success and securing a province, even if that securing is fleeting and the province falls to revolt very shortly thereafter?
 
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Nick Case
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Epsom
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1/ Battle resolved
2/ If province then has more Ronin than troops = Revolt

REVOLT
1 x Ronin & 1 x unit removed until <=1 one side left
Used Ronin go back in bag. Used tactic discs removed.

This player aid is your friend;

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/5flm06upv6/Bushi...
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Tony Bellringer
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Burgess Hill
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Well, yes, but my specific question was whether 'battle resolved' includes the award of province honour to a victor, or whether the Ronin revolt happens as an 'interrupt' before honour awards (including province honour) is awarded to the battle participants, thus depriving them of the province honour element?

The placement of the Revolt check on your player aid (which is very good btw) seems to suggest it does interrupt the resolution in this way and happens before the honour awards from the battle?

 
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