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Subject: Weakness on Enemies? rss

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Eric F
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The rules for the Weakness condition pretty much only refer to weakness on a hero (draw 1 fewer card), except for the last sentence:

Quote:
As a reflex player can remove all weakness conditions from an enemy to ignore 1 special ability of that enemy.


Why would one not do this? What effect does Weakness have on enemies since they don't draw cards?
 
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HitmanN
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TheRealEagleMan wrote:

Why would one not do this?


One case I can think of is that an enemy has multiple kinds of tokens on it, and you may want to save ignoring an ability for another turn, since you only remove one condition token from the enemy at the end of defense phase and can choose to keep the weakness token on the enemy.

For example, let's say an enemy has a nasty attack ability that activates when it attacks. The enemy has Weakness and Burning tokens on it, but is in the Quest Area and thus can't use the ability this turn. You may want to wait for the enemy to move to a Hero Area the next turn and then ignore the attack ability, so you can choose to discard the Burning token at the end of defense phase, and keep the Weakness for the next turn. Anyways, that's one hypothetical situation where you may not want to use the Weakness token immediately.

TheRealEagleMan wrote:
What effect does Weakness have on enemies since they don't draw cards?


Other than giving the chance to ignore an ability one time... I don't think there's anything else.
 
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Eric F
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HitmanN wrote:
TheRealEagleMan wrote:

Why would one not do this?


One case I can think of is that an enemy has multiple kinds of tokens on it, and you may want to save ignoring an ability for another turn, since you only remove one condition token from the enemy at the end of defense phase and can choose to keep the weakness token on the enemy.

For example, let's say an enemy has a nasty attack ability that activates when it attacks. The enemy has Weakness and Burning tokens on it, but is in the Quest Area and thus can't use the ability this turn. You may want to wait for the enemy to move to a Hero Area the next turn and then ignore the attack ability, so you can choose to discard the Burning token at the end of defense phase, and keep the Weakness for the next turn. Anyways, that's one hypothetical situation where you may not want to use the Weakness token immediately.


Hmm...good thought. Or, if the enemy has a Burning and Weakness token and you want it to keep the burning condition, you could leave the weakness (and take the ability), then when conditions resolve, choose to remove the weakness token.

HitmanN wrote:
TheRealEagleMan wrote:
What effect does Weakness have on enemies since they don't draw cards?


Other than giving the chance to ignore an ability one time... I don't think there's anything else.

That still seems a bit weird to me, that they have no passive effect, but sure, I guess it makes sense. I still think that in most cases there isn't an incentive to leave the tokens on the enemy...unless maybe you're playing with more players - with more players you may be putting more conditions on a single target more often?
 
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HitmanN
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TheRealEagleMan wrote:

That still seems a bit weird to me, that they have no passive effect, but sure, I guess it makes sense. I still think that in most cases there isn't an incentive to leave the tokens on the enemy...unless maybe you're playing with more players - with more players you may be putting more conditions on a single target more often?


Perhaps. Truth be told, I've never had more than one condition token on an enemy in any of my games, as I've played 2 heroes at most, and rarely focus on feats that place conditions. So far it's seemed better to just focus on feats with extra damage instead, and just make sure to kill the enemy outright. Special encounter enemies are pretty much the only exception where I might prefer placing conditions.

More heroes in play could get some pretty nasty condition chains going though if well-planned, I could imagine.
 
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Mike Clarke
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TheRealEagleMan wrote:
The rules for the Weakness condition pretty much only refer to weakness on a hero (draw 1 fewer card), except for the last sentence:

Quote:
As a reflex player can remove all weakness conditions from an enemy to ignore 1 special ability of that enemy.


Why would one not do this? What effect does Weakness have on enemies since they don't draw cards?


I think you're missing the point. You would always do that. That's the benefit of weakness, negating a special enemy ability. Since weakness tokens don't stack, it doesn't matter how many you remove. One weakness token is the same as 10 weakness tokens so you remove them all.
 
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HitmanN
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mikecl wrote:

I think you're missing the point. You would always do that. That's the benefit of weakness, negating a special enemy ability. Since weakness tokens don't stack, it doesn't matter how many you remove. One weakness token is the same as 10 weakness tokens so you remove them all.


Actually I think you missed the point of the question somewhat. The OP was questioning why the effect is reflex based, if there's no reason not to put the effect in use. But there are in fact situations where you might not want to activate the Reflex action on your current turn (see my first reply). That's why it's a Reflex based effect, unlike the other condition tokens' effects, which are passive. Which in turn lead the OP to wonder if they'd missed a possible passive effect on the Weakness condition.

At least that's how I understood the question(s).

The fact that Weakness doesn't stack for multiple uses is true, but the tokens themselves do stack. You just can't use excess ones for additional Reflex actions, but you can use them as buffer at the end of the defense phase, by choosing to discard one of them as the compulsory discard, if you haven't used the Reflex action and caused them all to get discarded earlier in the turn.

That's my understanding of how it works anyhow.
 
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B. G. Kubacki
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The only effect of Weakness tokens on Enemies is a temporary removal of their special abilities. More specifically, if an Enemy has a special ability that would trigger in a specific situation (like moving cards into Burial Pile), you can remove all of the Weakness tokens to prevent that from happening. This does not, however, eliminate the special ability permanently, just prevents the Enemy from using it that one time.
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Eric F
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HitmanN wrote:
mikecl wrote:

I think you're missing the point. You would always do that. That's the benefit of weakness, negating a special enemy ability. Since weakness tokens don't stack, it doesn't matter how many you remove. One weakness token is the same as 10 weakness tokens so you remove them all.


Actually I think you missed the point of the question somewhat. The OP was questioning why the effect is reflex based, if there's no reason not to put the effect in use. But there are in fact situations where you might not want to activate the Reflex action on your current turn (see my first reply). That's why it's a Reflex based effect, unlike the other condition tokens' effects, which are passive. Which in turn lead the OP to wonder if they'd missed a possible passive effect on the Weakness condition.

At least that's how I understood the question(s).

The fact that Weakness doesn't stack for multiple uses is true, but the tokens themselves do stack. You just can't use excess ones for additional Reflex actions, but you can use them as buffer at the end of the defense phase, by choosing to discard one of them as the compulsory discard, if you haven't used the Reflex action and caused them all to get discarded earlier in the turn.

That's my understanding of how it works anyhow.


HitmanN is correct in the understanding of my question, but Mike's response also helped my understanding of the mechanic by pointing out that the wording prevents weaknesses from stacking. Thanks, guys. And thank you Blazej for answering as well.
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