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Stand at Mortain» Forums » Rules

Subject: questions re Air Support and rewritten rules rss

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Jason -
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1) The rules say that the US Air Support "can either a)... OR b) impose a +1 Combat modifier on all [German] units in the target hex, and all adjacent hexes, for the rest of the turn." Does this mean that the the Air Support acts as a disruptive force (adding +1 to the card value) on the German units in the affected area when the they attack a US unit? Thus it is a beneficial modifier to the defending US unit the same way that, say, being located in a hill hex would help the defending US unit?

2) The unoffical rewritten rules state (if I'm reading it correctly) that an attack total higher than the drawn card after modifiers is a successful attack (causing the card to step down (flip/be removed)), but is this a typo? The official rules read to me that an attack total higher OR EQUAL TO the drawn card after modifiers is a successful attack.
 
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Jonas Jacobsson
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1) Not the way I've understood it. It's a +1 modifier when attacking only.

 
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Jason -
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So you use it as a 1 AT or 1 AI that is added to the attack strength of attacking US forces? That makes sense, too, just the rules use of the word "modifier" makes it sound like it affects the card value, which is for the defender. Treating it as a 1 AT/AI for US attacks on the affected hexes seems more logical to me, so I'll do it that way.
 
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Sisyphean Gamestacker
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I agree with Jason's original interpretation. If I'm not mistaken, +1 on an Allied attack would benefit the Germans, as you need to draw low. The +1 for air support seems to me to be a disruptive modifier, making it harder for the Germans to attack Allies in the vicinity of the air support. I would think that using air support as an attack would add its attack value (4) to the value of any other attacking units, not just +1 to the attack. Remember, an air support attack only happens once during a turn, but the +1 modifier carries on throughout. Seems to me that you are being asked to choose between offensive and defensive use of the counter.

Here's my question: If you play air support (assuming it's disruptive), can the air support go to any hex or only to a target hex? My reading of the rules is that you can only drop air support on a hex with a target in it (rather than play the counter defensively adjacent to several German units in different hexes).
 
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Sisyphean Gamestacker
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Since the thread seems to be active, let me post a modification/correction to one thing I wrote:

Quote:
I would think that using air support as an attack would add its attack value (4) to the value of any other attacking units, not just +1 to the attack.


An air strike is actually called in in lieu of activating any units. Thus, if you use the air support offensively, you only get the attack value of 4, modified by terrain. I use the offensive air strike only if I am desperate to attack and don't have any real options on the ground, and I generally believe the defensive value of air cover is far more valuable. I don't see much point to the OBA except as a last-ditch measure.

On a side note, after teaching this game to a friend, and letting him play the Germans, I've really come to appreciate how much the German player's decisions control what strategy there is in this game. Instead of making a break for the far side of the board, he refused to come out of cover, and we ended up playing a rather dull game I like to think of as Standing Around at Mortain.

-post edited for clarity-
 
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I am new to this game and I have a quick question regarding air support: You can attack a unit or a stack of units. So you can attack and damage a stack of 2 German units at once with a successful hit?
 
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Sisyphean Gamestacker
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Jaret,

That is what the rule says (although I must say I have somehow always ignored this rule in my knowledge that you can only attack a single unit). Perhaps the ability to attack a stack is what makes air and OBA attacks worthwhile. It's hard to hit, but you can damage multiple units if you do hit.

Tim
 
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I've read and re-read the above discussion, but it's still not entirely clear to me how the Air Support works. I understand from the rules that playing the Air Support (upon drawing a red odd card or red Jack) allows the US player to choose from one of two options:

a) attack an enemy hex with a strength of four
Original Rules: "make an AT or AI attack with a strength of 4."
Rules Rewritten v.2: "Attack any German stack or unit using a combat value of 4."
This is fairly straight forward (although it's not entirely clear how attacking a stack works - see also my question about stacks in this thread, where I ask whether 1 or 2 cards need to be drawn, and whether the attack affects each unit separately or together).

b) OR: have a combat modifier take effect for a specific target hex and adjacent hexes until end of turn.
Original Rules: "impose a +1 Combat modifier on all enemy units in the target hex, and all adjacent hexes, for rest of turn"
Rules Rewritten v.2: "impose a +1 Combat modifier on all German units in a hex and all adjacent hexes for the remainder of the turn."

It's this second option that is unclear and the subject of debate - are we to interpret this as a modifier for when those US troops defend or when they attack?
1. Defending interpretation. When the German troops on the target hex (or adjacent hexes) attack US troops, those US troops get a +1 modifer added to the card that is drawn by the US in defence.
2. Attacking interpretation. When the German troops on the target hex (or adjacent hexes) are attacked by US troops, those US troops get a +1 modifier added to their attack value (i.e. the net effect is the same as a -1 modifer to the card that is drawn by the Germans in defence)

Most of the posters above seem to favour 1. the defending interpretation. This would imply that when choosing Air Support, the US player can choose to use the air power (a) to attack (+4 attack used once), or (b) to defend against German attack (+1 modifier for rest of turn). However, couldn't it equally be argued that the US player is being given a choice to use the air power in one of two types of attack, either (a) a single attack of +4, or (b) future attacks with a +1 modifier for rest of turn? (i.e. 2. the attacking interpretation) What reasons are there for rejecting this latter interpretation?

Certainly the language of the rules is unclear, because normally "a +1 Combat modifier on enemy units" would benefit the enemy. To be clear, the rules should really state either of the following (depending on which interpretation is correct):
1. Defending interpretation. "Applies to an attack by German units located in the target hex or adjacent hexes: impose a +1 combat modifier to the defense card value of all defending US units (effect applies until the remainder of the turn)."
2. Attacking interpretation. "Applies to an attack by US units on German units located in the target hex or adjacent hexes: impose a -1 combat modifer to the defense card value of all defending German units(effect applies until the remainder of the turn)"

It's interesting that combat modifiers are consistently used elsewhere in the rules as being applied to the defender's defense value, and not the attacker's attack value. Probably this is what causes the unclarity on this point, since a +1 Combat modifier to the Germans would normally be understood as benefitting the Germans in defence, which clearly can't be the meaning here since the Air Power should benefit the US forces. I wonder if it is simply a typo, and perhaps the rules should have read (changes marked in bold) either "impose a +1 Combat modifier on all US units defending against enemy units in the target hex and all adjacent hexes, for rest of turn" (defending interpretation) or: "impose a minus 1 Combat modifier on all enemy units in the target hex and all adjacent hexes, for rest of turn" (attacking interpretation).
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http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?233@763.9mtQapW0iae.104@.1d...

Wow... official answer provided in the consolidated Pocket Battle Games addenda!

Quote:
"Combat - Clarification: When using the Allied air unit to "impose a +1 Combat modifier on all German units in a hex, and all adjacent hexes, for the remainder of the turn," it means those hexes are "interdicted" by the attack. The penalty is imposed on any German units in those hexes when they make an attack (even if they weren't originally present when the air attack was made)."
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